Cleansing Fire

Defending Truth and Tradition in the Roman Catholic Church

Can We Agree on This?

February 25th, 2019, Promulgated by Diane Harris

Can We Agree on This?

(See below for alt “Breaking News” attributed to Bishop of Rome)

Recently I was engaged with a group of Catholics discussing a few passages from the Bible, and several supposedly good, Catholic people opined about the terrible state the Church is in. Various comments and accusations were made about how perverse and sinful, how decayed, even how ‘full of evil’ the Catholic Church has become.

Then I realized I should have spoken up earlier, when the first comment against the Church was made, but still did so belatedly and with some embarrassment.  I said, basically, “NO, She is not any of those things. She is still what we say every Sunday in the Nicene Creed. She is ‘One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.’ She is still the Body of Christ and His Body is not sinful or corrupt. She is the Bride of Christ and He has not failed her. We have failed her, just like I failed for not interjecting earlier in the conversation. The Church has been victimized by those with the most responsibility for her care, at every level of the hierarchy. And the flock has been drawn into the sins of their own shepherds; especially they risk being drawn into the hierarchy’s willful intent not to act.”

Then, I thought, the Church is just like the victim beside the road from Jerusalem to Jericho, who fell into the company of robbers. She has been stripped and beaten, and left to die; ignored in her strife by the clerics invited to the Summit who passed by on the other side. We, the Laity, may be like the Samaritan, without adequate standing to take action, but we may be all that is left. We need a strategy from God, and prayers poured forth like oil on her wounds. Like the Good Samaritan, who involved the Innkeeper in the saving work, perhaps as Laity we should seek the help we need to be good stewards, withholding the resources from those who would use it against the True Church, and directing our funding to where it will most help the recovery of the Church.

The Four Marks

What I want to ask if we can agree on, at this moment in time, is simply whether or not you (yes, you and I) still believe in the four Marks of the Church and, if we do, then are we each committed to correcting the language that represents the Church as corrupt, and rather to squarely place the blame where it belongs? Every time?

We just found out from a grossly failed Summit in Rome that most of those with responsibility are not even willing to examine their own sins, let alone put forth any correction, accountability or transparency. Once again, the hierarchy has failed the flock, and just staged a show. What is left to us? Identifying the good, holy, committed clergy and following them and, whenever we have the opportunity, defending the Bride of Christ. We must make clear, over and over, that the evil is NOT the Church; it is some of the people entrusted to serve her. It is NOT the Church; it is those who have hijacked her for their own profit and sensuality. It is NOT the Church; it is perhaps our own naïve expectation that clerics are holy and, therefore, we have no role to play.


Looking Forward

With the closing of the “Sex Summit”, we know we are not going to be able to escape the pain by  responsible behavior from those who have caused the pain. Instead, their failure to act (or even to acknowledge the poison of homosexual ‘networks’ in the Church) only serves to further institutionalize the problem; i.e. by having ‘passed muster’ at the Vatican meeting.

Do you want some good news? TRUTH. False hopes have been dashed, we have just confirmed where the problem is, the spotlight is now shifting to the responsibility of the Laity, not in rejecting Holy Mother Church but in loving her more.

So–can we begin by agreeing to just one simple thing? To correct, every single time, the view that the “Church” is at fault, that the “Church” is defective, that the “Church” is sinful — and by so doing to defend the honor of the Bride of Christ? Do you agree?

Breaking News:



11 Responses to “Can We Agree on This?”

  1. raymondfrice says:

    It is time for us to pin the tails on the REAl donkeys.WITH OUR BLINDFOLDS OFF!!

  2. BigE says:

    “Look not on our sins, but on the faith of your Church….”

  3. militia says:

    I have to admit that I am encouraged, because we know we are on the right side of this issue. We don’t have to wonder about who’s right and who’s not.

    And I am especially encouraged by Psalm 125:3
    “For the scepter of wickedness shall not rest upon the land allotted to the righteous, lest the righteous put forth their hands to do wrong.” The scepter is the symbol of authority.

    Those who today have “authority” in the Church cannot stay that way for long.
    Let us lift up our heads, and be counted in fighting the good fight.

  4. Eliza10 says:

    I am so glad you wrote this, Diane. It is precious to me. i am working out and have been working out for some time how to respond and make out in my mind the corruption of the princes of the church at the highest levels. It was hard enough to enter the Church in 2000 in the DofR under Clark, and to see the results of his long reign in Rochester. I thought it was over when happily Rochester got it’s new bishop. But the the spotlight was now on the world church, and it’s relentless, and of course, depressing. I, too, have had a hard time seeing the holiness in the church lately, and even began to feel some despair about it, which I know is not from God. But how to respond? And when folks say things like those things you heard that you describe here, my response tends to be silent (a consent of silence?) with a bit of despair. But you give us the answer here, and it is an inspired one, and intelligent, and true, and I thank you. We need a ready-response because we are called and responsible to defend our Holy Mother, the Church! I am memorizing this, because we are commissioned to have a ready answer to explain the reason for our hope – in the midst of this ugliness, and at all times! I also will remember the Samaritan comparison because it is a very good one. But this I will memorize:

    “NO, She is not …[perverse/sinful/decayed/”full of evil”]any of those things. She is still what we say every Sunday in the Nicene Creed. She is ‘One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.’ She is still the Body of Christ and His Body is not sinful or corrupt. She is the Bride of Christ and He has not failed her. We have failed her… The Church has been victimized by those with the most responsibility for her care, at every level of the hierarchy. And the flock has been drawn into the sins of their own shepherds; especially they risk being drawn into the hierarchy’s willful intent not to act.”

    Amen, and thank you. It gave me joy to read this.

  5. Eliza10 says:

    I want to add another thought, particularly to your comment:

    “…perhaps as Laity we should seek the help we need to be good stewards, withholding the resources from those who would use it against the True Church, and directing our funding to where it will most help the recovery of the Church.”

    Well I had considered that solution and wondered if I was supposed to be doing that, or letter writing campaigns, or sign-carrying protests and other such things that I don’t like to do at all. They do keep one actively busy on trying to fix the problem but I never feel like they will REALLY make a difference, for all the effort. If I felt it would make a difference I would be motivated to act.

    In this very good “TnT” video I am posting a link to here in this reply, that my husband and I just watched, on Lent, so its appropriate this week, they ask that question, what should we do? Those things (I just mentioned)? Well say they are not effective, and I believe it. It makes sense what they say here, that if we write our bishop and say we are withholding our (even) 5 or 10K annual check to the bishop appeal (for those very few that it is that much) the bishop WON’T CARE. He is all SET for his life and his retirement, and there is nothing we can do to or say that will influence our bishop to do ANYTHING different. WE JUST DON’T MATTER. (This is a theme with Narcissists).

    We can ONLY affect change the way we are told in the real message of Fatima, and Akita, and every other appealing appearance of Our Lady – by fast and prayer and reparation. I think THIS is the call of the laity, and why it is the time of the laity.

    Here is the video link, and it’s a long video but we never get impatient to finish the TnT videos because we learn a lot from them, and they are easy-listening, but if you just want to get to the point I am making, it’s between the 3 and 6 minute mark, at the beginning, where they discuss what we can do, including the idea of telling the bishop you plan to withhold your funds:

  6. christian says:

    I have people express disappointment in some of those in church hierarchy, particularly those within the Vatican, but express their love for their faith. I have heard it expressed as hating “the Political Church” but loving “the Spiritual Church.” There obviously has been a conscious decision to separate those corrupt individuals in high positions in Rome, with the Catholic faith handed down to them.

    I think if there had been more transparency along, from the local diocese to Church hierarchy extending to the Vatican in Rome, and those in those positions having to be answerable to the laity, less corruption would have been allowed to exist. I am not suggesting laity formulate Church doctrine, but I think issues regarding sexual immorality, sexual abuse of minors and adults, Vatican bank corruption, and misappropriation of funds should be areas where the laity have input as how Church personnel should be handled and when they should be dismissed and face criminal prosecution. Because we know from experience, those in Church hierarchy are not capable of governing themselves.

    Fraternal favors, displaced fraternity loyalty, and assurance of monetary funds are what has kept those in Church hierarchy from taking appropriate action particularly in regard to instances of sexual abuse committed by clergy and religious.
    There is one situation known to me where a priest in a religious order on the West Coast was not only allowed to continue his ministry after victimizing a teenage girl sexually, but his Provincial gave him a letter of good standing to a Bishop of another diocese and area where would be serving. That bishop was very upset when problems arose and he found out the priest’s background, yet he had been given a letter of good standing by his Provincial. The Provincial had some type of explanation pointing to the fact that they were good friends and he thought he was a great guy. This priest of this religious order was sent to a few foreign countries to do missionary work and victimized more teenage girls sexually along the way. He was removed from ministry temporarily to undergo counseling. Apparently he had been told he could resume ministry once he completed his course of counseling. The USCCB met meanwhile and brought about the June 2002 ruling that those with credible allegations of sexual abuse against them could not be allowed in ministry.

    This priest reportedly was angry as well as disappointed, stating he had to go through all that counseling and now he couldn’t be allowed to resume ministry, which he had promised. There was no regard for his victims or any contrition on his part for what he had done. Even worse, he and some members of his order, along with a therapist they consulted, insisted his actions shouldn’t be classified as pedophilia because these girls were of teenage age. Apparently they thought the actions were more normal because they were heterosexual and with females who past puberty. He clearly was a sexual predator in these cases and victimized innocent, vulnerable girls. Meanwhile, various members all feel bad for him because they think he is such a great guy.

    Within the last five years, this priest in a religious order who has been removed from ministry, had successfully found an earlier victim after an extensive search. He wrote her a letter relaying that he wanted to see her. I believe she responded asking him for no further correspondence and that she did not want to see him. Apparently it was quite upsetting for this victim as it brought back painful memories and a very traumatic time. When this priest continued to write, requesting to see her, she took a letter to her current Diocese. After the religious order was contacted, they acted like this woman was the problem. They sent a representative from their order to pay her off to go away. In regard to the treatment this woman received from this religious order, she contacted a lawyer and brought a lawsuit against the order.

    This real life account depicts the same problem among many areas of the Catholic Church where colleagues that are so close and connected, cannot make the proper assessment of a situation and take appropriate action. They regard the accused as “a great guy” and “brother” and side with them. An impartial arbitrator would be beneficial in these type cases.

  7. Eliza10 says:

    Christian, it’s because priests like this, and their higher-ups, bishops, cardinals, and so on up – cohorts in crimes – lack SUPERNATURAL FAITH. So they have to make up/create a different faith, a modernist version, a version of their own religion masking as Catholicism where sin is justifiable, and lack of chastity does not matter, any religion is as good as the next, and hell does not exist. The ones who are supposed to be our leaders and teachers of the faith instead are lacking in basic faith and adhere to heresy. They are lost on the wide, wide road to perdition. I think that is why it is the time of the laity. The laity needs to avail themselves of the rich,rich blessing of having received the true faith (in spite of them), and we need to pray and fast and make reparation for them so that they may receive the miraculous graces needed for their conversion.

  8. Eliza10 says:

    So these church clergy, in posh positions of comfort, “NEED” their worldly comforts and luxuries that they receive so immorally (stealing from what is given for the poor and needy, like Judas the Iscariot), and they NEED their camaraderie with like-minded erring clergy, who won’t challenge them, because they are lost and without the supernatural faith which is the only thing that will get them out of the vice grip of sin. So they live to justify their sin, which is why they cannot even talk about homosexuality or ANY of the root causes of this crisis. Because they are in it. Imagine: they are bringing Christ down from Heaven in these hands. How must Jesus feel? They are receiving the body and blood unworthily, day after day, year after year. AND they are held to a higher standard than us! They are in a terrible, terrible state, on a frightening road of denial that has a terrible, terrible eternal end. They really need us to be active, in the blessing of our supernatural faith, to help them. Not our words. I think they DO NOT LIKE US (as you can see how they treat good priests and bishops) and they do not want to hear our words. They are repelled by holiness and by truth. Truth is juast something they twist to suit their own purposes.

  9. christian says:

    Eliza 10: I agree, it is now the time of the laity to act. We need to pray for conversion and actively evangelize for the real supernatural Faith and Truth.

    I also think we need to form a group or groups to discuss the situations at hand and what avenue of action we should take, and then take that action.

    The real challenge will be if significant portions of the laity will want to be involved in this monumental, noble, loving task for God and his holy church.

  10. Eliza10 says:

    I think awareness is a good place to start. I have been “behind” on what is going on, till recently, because it’s all been too upsetting to look at. But seeing the truth is good. I have been clinging to false hopes, and that doesn’t help any. Understanding what is behind it and the history is important too. I am still trying to catch-up with learning. Beginning to learn about the St.Gallen Mafia. Masonry, Modernism, Marxism and the organized infiltration of the church from within. How we need the daily rosary. Our weapon.

  11. christian says:

    I think awareness is a good place to start, but it would have to be made clear that this formation of awareness and learning is a means toward taking decisive action, which will be taken.

    Many people, including me, have had their fill of committees/meetings from all areas of life, including workplace/profession or church/faith, where there is much presentation, talk and discussion, but nothing comes out of it as formulating a plan and taking decisive action. This situations would have been palatable had there been some decision-making, and progress had been done, even if it was done in a careful, calculated, methodical manner. When there has been much talk about a situation that affects employees or members, as well as an entire institution/organization, and no action comes from it, it comes across as either just a gripe session or frivolous talk.

    To be successful, there needs to be someone(s) who would take the lead in educating parishioners/members of the Church to the problems at hand. There needs to be someone(s) who would schedule meeting times and place(s), and someone(s) who would be responsible for making leaflets/fliers, posters, and utilizing other means of components and means of communication to communicate dates, time(s), and place(s)for the meetings. There would need to be someone(s) to organize efforts in reaching out to parishioners/members of the church to attend these meetings, in person, by mail, radio, or via social media, utilizing leaflets/fliers, posters, and variable components of social media. There would have to be a tentative time table with regard to steps taken along the way in regard to decisive action taken, as well as establishing the resources needed in helping to determine decision-making such as lawyer and someone educated in canon law.

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