Cleansing Fire

Defending Truth and Tradition in the Roman Catholic Church

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Old but new !

December 1st, 2014, Promulgated by Monk

As a long time member of STA parish, I attended the 9:00 am Novus Ordo Mass this past Sunday. It was so exciting to attend a Sunday Mass again at STA after four long years! I saw many familiar faces in the congregation. There was great joy in seeing the beauty of the Church once again. I am so grateful to be able to receive Communion again kneeling at the Communion rail….a true gift! As much as the Church and people were all so familiar to me, there was something new in the air. This is a new community, familiar but different, different in a good way! The traditional liturgy that was faithfully maintained by STA parishioners and their pastors over the years has become the seed of a new beginning that will grow and be stronger than the original STA parish. We are all thankful to Bishop Matano for creating this opportunity for the Latin Mass Community to grow and spread its goodness throughout the diocese. I truly believe this new model of a Latin Mass Community will not be unique to just our diocese but will be a model for other dioceses through the country to emulate.

Here are a few photos from the Novus Ordo Mass.

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20 Responses to “Old but new !”

  1. avatar Sid says:

    Looks like a crowd full of happy, (mostly) properly dressed, reverent new parishioners! It would be great if STA could become another seed for doing things right in an OF Mass.

    I do wish they would lose the Advent wreath though… Granted, it’s not as bad as some other liturgical innovations, but (despite all the pseudo-historic mularchy people will spout) it’s a modern day entrant into Catholic practice. I hope it gets stashed away before the EF Mass. At least toss a sheet over it. 🙂

  2. avatar Jim R says:

    The funny thing about the Advent Wreath at Church is that it probably is an organic outgrowth of popular religious expression – moving from the home to the Church. I never remember any push to include it at Church – unlike the push for hand-holding and the orans position at Mass. Maybe it was there and I was oblivious. I certainly understand not wanting it, but as you say, “it’s not as bad as some other liturgical innovations.” Even incense, vestments, statuary, and Latin were at one time innovations in worship.

  3. avatar Bernie says:

    🙂 I’m being VERY picky here (to say nothing of going off topic!) but vestments were never an innovation. They stated out as simply the same street clothes commonly worn by the men of the 1st century –cleaner, perhaps, at Mass than those worn everyday but in no way different in style. Certain minor modifications occurred when bishops were granted privileges (or responsibilities) after the legalization of Christianity. Vestments became something seriously religious after the Roman Empire underwent a cultural change due to the different customs of the new barbarian rulers and immigrants. While the general population gradually adopted the new barbarian styles of dress, the clergy did not. They held onto the older Roman style. The articles of Roman dress eventually took on metaphorical or symbolic religious meanings that endured down to the present time (at least in the Extraordinary Form of the Mass). Doing away with ‘vestments’, however, would be a horrible idea as we would loose those beautiful symbolic meanings. Those priests of the Extraordinary Form who take vesting and the accompanying prayers seriously, know what I mean.

  4. avatar Bernie says:

    BTW, the Advent Wreath at Saint Thomas the Apostle is placed outside the chancel, to the side, and behind a pier/post. It’s not really noticeable in any serious way.

  5. avatar Sid says:

    Hah, Bernie, with an endorsement like that, I can tell your sympathies are aligned with mine. 🙂
    With that line of reasoning though, it would be even less noticeable if it were put in a locked closet.

  6. avatar Monk says:

    Sid,
    Bishop Matano and Fr. Bonignore have repeatedly asked for all sides to work together in an air of cooperation. That will allow this experiment to succeed and the community to thrive and grow. Nit picking and negativity are counter to this request. No abuses have taken place. Father Bonsignore is a good priest who is willing to allow licit practices to advance cooperation but would never cross the line to allow illicit abuses. I would beg everyone to cooperate in this effort to grow this community. We all have our preferences but should be willing to bow in obedience to faithful clergy who carry the burden of responsibity for all the souls they serve.

  7. avatar Hopefull says:

    Amen, Monk. Amen. And I would add that if we do have serious issues, which could happen given the high level of stress and financial uncertainties, there might be a better chance of being heard and securing hierarchical intervention, if we weren’t already acting like nitpickers. I didn’t see what Bernie wrote as nit-picking because it was informational about vestment practice that had been raised, and not nitpicking anything in the current situation. Monk has spoken well about an appropriate level of caution.

  8. avatar Sid says:

    Settle down, Monk. I did say a lot of good things and expressed wishes that they succeed as another outpost of reverent orthodoxy. I was only pointing out that if one is intending to spawn a return to tradition, neolisms like advent wreaths do not belong. If you don’t want people to comment, then why did YOU post the picture? Relax a little… You guys want everything all kumbaya 24/7.

  9. avatar Jim R says:

    Just in case anyone is interested in the development of vestments:
    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15388a.htm

  10. avatar Pietro says:

    Sid, my only thought is that I’ve been to all kinds of traditionalists services in my life time, SSPX, FSSP, independent, sedavecantist, and the Advent wreath has never been mentioned as a concern. I made an advent wreath in my religion classes at Holy Name of Mary at Winton Road back in the late 70’s when it was run by the SSPX.

    I guess it depends on your interpretation of traditionalist but I don’t see it as a traditionalist issue. And I don’t see it causing a stir in the EF community. Your comment was the first I have ever heard on the subject.

  11. avatar Jim says:

    Jim M. here: Thanks for the link, Ben.

  12. avatar militia says:

    I finally (think) I figured out a few things. Please correct me if I am wrong. We are being told that we have to register at St. Kateri if we want a year end statement. As long as it is kept separate for the Latin Community, it might be okay, but how do we make sure it is allocated to the Latin Community? I guess it means we absolutely have to be very careful to always use the blue Latin envelopes, whether at the Novus Ordo or Extraordinary Form Mass.

    Previously, I did not understand that the returning STA parishioners were also going to be called “Latin Mass Community” — whether they go to the English or the Latin Mass. So they also have to use the blue envelopes.

    If there were prior STA parishioners who started going to Mass in a St. Kateri parish (and continued their prior registration or re-registered) it seems to me that they might be treated as being St. Kateri and not as being in the Latin Community. Maybe the safest thing is for them to re-register rather than presume their donations will be allocated to the Latin Community? So what I get from this is:

    1.English or Latin Mass at STA — is still a Latin Community Mass. There is no “category” of STA returnees.
    2.English or Latin Mass — always use the blue envelopes for the Latin Mass Community to support continuation of both Masses at STA.
    3.If already registered in St. Kateri (either because you registered there or were in a carryover from STA) it will be important to now re-register as Latin Community so donations don’t get allocated for the support of St. Kateri.

    Have I figured it out right? I guess I’ve been slow in figuring it out.

  13. avatar dmf says:

    The new community at St. Thomas, encompassing both the English and Latin Masses, is officially know as the St. Kateri Tekakwitha Latin Mass Community. Regardless of where one is registered, any money placed in the collection basket will go to the new community as long as the money is NOT placed in an envelope marked for another parish, including St. Kateri. Checks should be made out to SKTLMC. If an envelope is used, it should be the blue one or a plain, unmarked envelope.

  14. avatar JLo says:

    dmf, once we’ve “registered” with the LMC via completing the reverse (or ID form) side of the blue envelope, must we complete that envelope form every time we use the envelope, or will the LMC issue us an envelope # which will identify us? Thank you! +JMJ

  15. avatar Sid says:

    Seems really involved… Why not just maintain the system established when TLMC was at St. Stan’s when TLMC had its own envelopes, numbers, and name? Why does anything have to change in the funds handling department? At St. Stan’s, they were not “SSKLMC” after all…

    Dare I ask who is actually handling the money? JLo’s prior STA horror stories makes me think it should NOT be the St. Kateri central office.

    Finally, there are *sure* to be checks in the basket labelled just “St. Kateri” or “St. Thomas Aquinas”. What happens to those donations? Many people (especially visitors) are not going to be hip to the 15 syllable name or the equally cryptic “SKTLMC”.

  16. avatar Sid says:

    Whoops, I meant “St. Thomas THE APOSTLE” above.

  17. avatar militia says:

    Actually, Sid, I think there is a good chance someone will write “St. Thomas Aquinas” or “St. Thomas More.” I’d like to know more about how that is going to be handled.

  18. avatar christian says:

    I agree with Pietro and other posters who don’t see a problem with an Advent Wreath being present, and previously, not heard a complaint about an Advent Wreath being present.

    I was very happy to hear of St. Thomas the Apostle being opened again for Sunday mass. St. Thomas the Apostle opening again has extra significance for me because that was the church where my cousin Paul married the love of life. He was overcome with emotion and cried at his wedding.

    My cousin Paul died this summer -July 18th, 2014. He died young after a courageous battle with pancreatic cancer. My cousin Paul embodied what it means to be a true Christian. It seemed that I heard news about the possibility of St. Thomas the Apostle Church reopening after his death. I can’t help but think of my cousin Paul in connection with St. Thomas the Apostle Church, and more so, now that it has been reopened.

  19. avatar Hopefull says:

    That’s a very beautiful reflection, Christian. What a profound memory. It is just the kind of meaningful memory that we should all have of our churches, in good times and not so good, but all around very special moments in life. That is the fabric which is being destroyed by closing churches. The weaving of baptisms, first communions, weddings, funerals where life itself comes together. Very sad how so much has been lost, but good to hear of one recovery of a memory, and its continuity. Thanks for sharing.

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