Cleansing Fire

Defending Truth and Tradition in the Roman Catholic Church


Boy Scouts Cave-in — now what?

May 25th, 2013, Promulgated by Diane Harris

LifeSiteNews is one of the best  “fingers on the pulse of a dying world” resources.  And serious threats of lawsuits have not suppressed them; articles are timely.  For anyone not getting the free daily subscription, something is missing!  Canadian based, focused too on trends south of their border, we can see in advance the toxic plants being grown in the secular hothouse up north.  Yesterday’s article by Peter LaBarbera is entitled:

The Boy Scouts’ folly: Putting sexual morality up to  a vote

Amen!  So much morality has been put up for a vote, for legislation, for secular enforcement, for court decision that it has become a way of life — as if a large enough vote could ever outweigh God’s Law. 

The author characterizes the Boy Scouts’ vote to admit homosexual youth “another tragic day for an America in decline.”   Such error is abetted by the “Scouts’ corporate-driven leaders….”  This debacle is a key reason why NOT patronizing companies which lack a moral compass is so important.  (See Hopefull’s post on Boycotting from February 2012.)  Who would have thought that Boycotting would be so important to Boyscouting?  Well, there was apparently not enough pressure on the companies who were pressuring the BSA:  LifeSiteNews reports these three in particular:  UPS, Intel and AT&T.  And author LaBarbera writes:  “the Scouts as we once knew them – a God-fearing, wholesome organization – were finished. “

Here’s the Scout Oath (Promise)  from BSA’s website: 

“On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.”
Let us hope that other “morally straight” organizations and leaders will arise to provide the kind of organization which BSA had been, and which its voting leaders have now violated.  Only wholesale departure (aka boycott of the boyscouts) can have any chance of making a difference now. 
It is anyone’s guess whether or not  “morally straight” will stay or be stricken from the words of the Oath (Promise)  but it has already been stricken from its heart.  We can hope that other “morally straight” organizations will rise up to compete with the “corrupted BSA”, to protect the children and give the parents a viable alternative.  Most important now is for the leaders to resign who do not agree with what the BSA has caved to;  if leaders don’t resign, why should the boys?  If so, perhaps eventually such a new organization will even incorporate “morally straight” into its name?
The author calls this disaster “a completely unnecessary capitulation.”   The Scouts had already won in a Supreme Court Decision in 2000 to “live by its own moral creed….thus rewarding the very homosexual lobby that tormented the BSA since its high court triumph.”  And, we might add, teaching the youth that the best solution to opposition is surrender.

By the time crucial decisions reach final votes, they are almost lost.  And if not, they will be re-voted again and again until morality is lost.  People don’t slide up slippery slopes.  So the Faithful need to be engaged much earlier in the process.  And that means using tools such as boycott as early as possible.  The only recent success I can think of is JC Penney.  But in that case it was the company flaunting its own pro-gay stance, causing great loss of value to its shareholders.  When pressure is from companies which are one-step removed, scaring volunteers and other leaders, they are less visible as the oppressors.  That’s all the more reason to track early and emerging issues.

Of what merit is this badge?

Of what merit is this badge?

 Author LaBarbera writes further:  “No honorable organization would confirm boys and young men in an immoral sexual “identity” associated with such disproportionate, massive health risks.  Shame on the Boy Scouts, and on their sponsors – most notably, the Mormon and Catholic Churches — for failing to use their considerable leverage with the BSA to stop this “gay” surrender.”   Whether there are churches even more responsible, I don’t know.  But it needs to be said that the Catholic Church seemed to have taken no leadership in working to prevent this vote.  When did we hear it from the pulpit?  Read it in Diocesan materials?  Receive a plea for activism by the laity?

Google “Boy, Scouts, Catholic and vote” and find the comment attributed to Bishop Robert Guglielmone, of Charleston, South Carolina, who is the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops’ liaison to the NCCS, who made public a letter about the topic in which he stated:  “With regard to a possible BSA membership change, we will continue to uphold the truths of the Church’s teaching and strive to maintain our ties with the BSA.”  And a passionate plea for a gay-inclusive policy came from alleged Catholic theologian Richard Galliardetz, in — where else? — the National Catholic Reporter.   With that same argument of inclusivity, why aren’t men and women, boys and girls of ALL ages allowed to join the Boy Scouts?  Wouldn’t that be “really inclusive?”

The author states that “BSA leaders panicked out of fear of losing more Fortune 500 grants.”   And that is one of the many reasons that “money is the root of all evil.”  It could as well be said “the route of all evil,” i.e. a direct path to warp the soul.  If the BSA doesn’t understand it yet, they soon will, as pressure mounts to allow homosexual adult Scoutmasters, including on camping trips.  At what point will parents protect their sons?  As the author concludes:  “The BSA’s sellout … ensures that homosexual activists and their lawyers ultimately will win. Appeasement never works.”  So true.  Appeasement only strengthens the oppressor.

And now, from the National Catholic Register:



26 Responses to “Boy Scouts Cave-in — now what?”

  1. avatar Dominick Anthony Zarcone says:

    With all due respect to his excellency, Bishop Guglielmone,
    the Catholic Church will not uphold Catholic teachings on
    sexual morality without severing Church ties with
    the Boy Scouts of America.

    As a matter of fact, the evidence country wide casts
    dark shadows on official assertions that the Church
    bureaucracies still believe Catholic teaching; let alone
    uphold it.

    It takes courage to uphold the Truth in the face of
    secular opposition and financial intimidation.

    I am not convinced the majority of our dioceses
    have the courage to be Catholic.

    The deep reform is underway in Rome.
    May it come soon to Rochester and parishes
    affiliated with BSA.

  2. avatar Richard Thomas says:

    To complicate the world wide apostacy, too many leaders in the Catholic Church are either homosexual, or are sympathetic to homosexual rights. As a result, teachings concerning homosexuality or other critical elements regarding sexual morality are never taught, thus furthering the apostacy.

  3. avatar Richard Thomas says:

    I just know, it’s no more Girl Scout cookies and donations to the Boy Scouts.

  4. avatar Jim says:

    @ Richard Thomas…yes, it’s really sad that the young girl scouts and boy scouts have to suffer for an issue that is way beyond them, in their youthful innocence.

  5. avatar DanielKane says:

    We must at all times separate the inclination from the act. Being of homosexual inclination, especially as a young man is profoundly difficult. There are few places where reverence and “moral straightness” is properly taught and natural passions tamed into their proper place.

    We do not refuse baptism to a person on the basis of their inclinations or their unspeakably heavy crosses. Let’s not make the Boy Scouts more exclusive than Catholicism. Quite obviously, it is reasonable and prudent to preclude from leadership men with homosexual inclination (just as the Church properly does for Holy Orders). But if a confused boy that is 10 or 12 said he likes other boys, there is no reason to ostracize him based on his temptations.

    Quite the contrary, there is likely no better place for a same-sex attracted boy than a Catholic Boy Scout Troop where the norms of the CCC are (or should be) promoted and modeled – namely the virtue of chastity. At the same time, the CCC warns to avoid “every sign of unjust discrimination” against those who experience same-sex attraction (CCC 2358). To discriminate on a temptation as opposed to an action seems to me to be unjust, especially when applied to a child.

  6. avatar annonymouse says:

    DanielKane, thanks for your thoughtful response. My first reaction to the BSA vote was one of outrage and sadness last week. After more thought, however, I think you’ve expressed well what I’ve been thinking – what better place for a kid who believes himself to be “gay” than in the BSA, where the virtue of chastity is promoted and where he will find excellent male role models. A place to learn what it means to be a man, where he will hopefully find resolution to confusion. For what 15-year old boy really knows that he’s “gay?” I would think such youth are more confused than anything else.

    The last thing we should wish to encourage is to push kids out, for that will serve to push them into the so-called “gay lifestyle” from which it will be a more difficult road to either recovery or holy chastity.

  7. avatar Bernie says:

    I agree with annonymouse and DanielKane. Banning homosexual leaders makes sense as it places such persons in a possible occasion to sin.

  8. avatar Richard Thomas says:

    It won’t stop there. If this has already not been done, Homosexual advocates are pushing for homosexuals to become scout directors. And it is going to happen.

    80% of ALL catholic clergy sexual assaults were homosexual priests on boys. This is no place to ever be associated with this kind of behavior.

    And we all know, just like in the US government that there will be indoctrinations of these young boys celebrating homosexuality as just another lifestyle.

    No thanks, Dan. This group is to now be avoided. They have the potential to become a near occasion of sin. We must protect our youth.

    Even if there are no homosexual scout leaders at this time, some boy with homosexual tendencies is going to ask questions about sexual orientation and unless there is an acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle, there is going to be a huge brew haha and the boy scouts will be forced to be even more homosexual friendly.

  9. avatar annonymouse says:

    RT, you could be right. On the other hand, if there is a wholesale flight of faith-based sponsoring organizations and their constituents, I guarantee that it will happen that there will be homosexual scout leaders. As the “compromise” stands now, it looks like they are pretty firm, and the Catholic and LDS constituencies more or less supported the compromise, but would both bolt in the event the BSA leadership brings the matter (“gay” leaders) up again.

    As I see it, the BSA policies are not far from the Catholic position – we are to welcome and love persons with a homosexual orientation, yet not condone homosexual behavior.

    So before you get all bent out of shape over this, why not see how it plays out?

  10. avatar Richard Thomas says:


    There are non catholic groups leaving the organization.

    How can someone welcome a lifestyle against your beliefs?

    I can’t compromise with evil.

  11. avatar Dominick Anthony Zarcone says:

    Given the “gay” agenda, given the corruption
    of our culture, given the lack of understanding
    of natural law and the common good, I agree
    with Richard Thomas.


    It is not discriminatory to disassociate.
    It shows moral conviction.

    “Bent out of shape”? Perhaps annonymouse has a radically
    different understanding of that idiomatic expression from the one
    my generation had. Given this post’s topic, an old timer like me
    thinks it is inappropriate.

    Speaking the truth in love……

  12. avatar Hopefull says:

    Does anyone else see the irony? “… there is likely no better place for a same-sex attracted boy than a Catholic Boy Scout Troop where the norms of the CCC are (or should be) promoted and modeled….” Well, yes, I can think of a better place! How about an acclaimed Jesuit HS? That sounds like a better place to me. Then boys with SSA can even go together as a couple to the junior prom … where the norms of the CCC are (or should be) promoted and modeled and “every sign of unjust discrimination….” can be avoided. After all, it wasn’t as if they were going to do anything unchaste at the prom anyway, so how could anyone “…discriminate on a temptation as opposed to an action … especially when applied to a child…” ?

    No. No. 1000x NO. The naivete is maddening! If we ever needed any further understanding of what the slippery slope entails, look at what we are now arguing about. Straight sons in pup tents with SSA boys? Until what age? Tiptoeing around language about what is “morally straight or not?” Revising the oath or maybe offering a cafeteria oath? Girls admitted with transgender problems? When would it stop? On the slipper slope, it doesn’t.

    There is a belief with which I unfortunately concur: if it is not possible to get someone to sin in one step, use 5, or 10 or 100 or 1000. At some point the difference between what one is willing to do and not willing to do dwindles to insignificance. It is called by the old-fashioned word: “Seduction.” That is what the gay lobby has plied on the country, and it is what will be plied on the boys. In BSA there are “leadership” positions for older teens….. BSA is where boys are taught to be leaders. So SSA boys should not be permitted to do leadership projects? Or will boys who spend their lives in scouting really be thrown out at, say, 18? And not involved at all with younger boys? Of course not, because by then they are just ‘one of the guys,’ not a threat and permissively not noticed.

    In all that has been enacted so far, where is the guideline regarding homosexual activity being cause for immediate dismissal from the BSA? What is the process for complaint, And who is going to enforce it? The BSA is being incredibily naive to think a rule change won’t create hundreds more rules that need to be made. The BSA is not going to be equipped to handle this in an organization already divided 60:40.

    Matthew 18:6 “… but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.” This is not an issue on which to be wrong. It is one to approach in fear and trembling lest we endanger other children irrevocably. Suppose every BSA leader were a Catholic priest. Would that make us more secure in the decision to admit SSA boys? I rather think not. Quite frankly, keeping SSA boys out of scouts (and maybe even out of Catholic schools — we can argue that another time) is likely not an “unjust discrimination” as it would be against a boy who is in a wheelchair being kept out of a sports-oriented school. That discrimination would be unjust! We are dealing here with at least a proclivity to sin, using other children as fodder. Dear God, help us to at least have clarity of mind in what we are doing. And may it start on this blog.

  13. avatar DanielKane says:

    A critical error in judgement occurs when you claim a “moral conviction” or a “lifestyle” judgement on the inclination or temptation of a confused and troubled 10 year old kid who wants to be a scout. As a matter of Truth a person of homosexual inclination is welcomed at Baptism, Confirmation and Eucharist. It is incredible to suggest that the terms of membership of the Catholic Church and for the reception of Sacraments is LESS stringent than the Boy Scouts.

    It is an judgement of the malignant kind to judge a person by his temptation(s) and not his acts. It is manifestly contrary to charity to disassociate from a person based on their temptations. Temptations that they likely need assistance in fighting and assistance in the formation of virtue to resist. To be tempted to homosexuality is not to be “gay”.

    We are talking about scouts, kids, not scout leaders.

    For certain, no person of good will supports sexual behavior of children and teens and sexual activity of any sort is contrary to the BSA’s stated values. Non-marital sexual activity is always wrong and has been since before the Gospel. But the inclination to such activity is not the same as the act – and by rejecting the person inclined to homosexuality (and not their acts) one acts contrary to the Church’s own hard teachings – CCC 2358 says the following:

    “The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.”

    After reading this verbatim quote from the CCC, is it just to “disassociate” from the person tempted to homosexuality? It seems that it would be contrary to charity. An easy read of the preceding sections of the CCC consistently condemns acts and not persons. It does not impute guilt for future acts that are unknown. That is the type of judgement that is expressly condemned in the Gospel. Again, we are speaking of confused, tempted kids, not leadership.

    If one claims to love the sinner and hate the sin here is your gut check. Do you actually intend to state that a person tempted to grave sin should be shunned and that such a shunning would be an exercise of prudence? Quite clearly, forcing a BSA troop out of a Catholic Church would be utterly contrary to respect, compassion and sensitivity demanded by the CCC. It would be unjust discrimination (in that you are judging their temptation and not their actions).

    A child with a possible or likely homosexual inclination must, MUST be accepted with love and dignity and properly formed in the virtues. That is what the Scouts do on paper and hopefully in practice. It is proper to demand such a course of action. If you have evidence to the contrary, present it as it must be heard.

    However, if we reject the same sex attracted child, because of his temptation(s), there are several communities that will welcome them with open arms – to the child’s detriment.

    In the end, we may judge actions, but not temptations. What society actually needs to counter this homosexual revolution are same sex attracted persons who are “morally straight” and properly integrated joyfully living a chaste life in accord with their state.

  14. avatar Hopefull says:

    I believe parents have not only the right, but also the obligation, to protect their children from occasions of sin, and from unnecessary risk and danger. It’s not unjust discrimination, it is prudence and discernment. The CCC mentions “unjust” discrimination; by qualifying, it admits of the possibility of “just” discrimination, and parents’ duty to their children trumps social nicities.

    It is a straw man to argue from access to the sacraments. Apples and oranges. Everyone is called to the Church. We are all sinners, not just tempted to sin. But that doesn’t mean a parent has to send their 10 year old boy on a camping trip with a few SSA teens.

    Major withdrawal of Christian Church-sponsored troops from the BSA sends a message of conviction and a defense of the family that quiet, even vigilant, involvement in the BSA can’t match. It puts conviction into the words “morally straight.”

    When Pope Benedict asserted that homosexual men should not be ordained to the priesthood, he didn’t differentiate between temptation and homosexual sin, but rather regarding the depth and persistence of temptation. Parents can’t know that about any child to whom their own children are exposed. To err on the side of protecting one’s child is not sinful; it is prudent.

  15. avatar Richard Thomas says:

    If someone is proclaiming he is homosexual, then that is going past the temptation stage and into the realm of homosexual actions or someone who is an advocate of such actions. No one is going into a boy scout troup indicating he has only same sex attraction. As Hopesul stated, it’s like the two boys going to the prom at McQuaid. They are going past the same sex attraction and are advocates of the lifestyle.

    And when you are in a boy scout troup, discussions concerning homosexuality will come up. What will be the thread of such topics. Now, according to the boy Scouts recent action, they condone homosexual conduct. And there was no “Don’t ask don’t tell. It;s right out in the open.

    You are accepting not only the child but also the homosexual condition, full blown. That is wrong.

    As stated previously, who will allow their children to be exposed to this kind of environment.

    As stated previously, this goes past the “Temptation” stage and into the action stage.

  16. avatar Richard Thomas says:

    There’s one trajic item about “homosexual” children. There are many hurting and confused children who may think they are gay but are not. Now, according to the culture, they may never have the chence to be afforded the opportunity of questioning this notion because the culture has signed off on the notion that homosexuality is OK.

  17. avatar Gretchen says:

    Young boys with SSA, having come through a school system that supports and encourages homosexuality, are not going to be helped in a Scouting situation, generally. This is akin to thinking that one hour of Sunday School per week is going to keep your child a Christian. Even if a Scout leader was able to counsel a young boy with SSA, what is to prevent that child from resisting such counsel, especially when the world, his school, possibly his parents and other family members are all telling him that homosexuality is fine. Add on top of that, that he may not get helpful counsel, and you have a Pandora’s Box. Additionally, this young boy, confused, angry, sad, etc., may influence other boys in a detriminental manner, or be detrimentally influenced by covert bullying, etc. The Scouts have caved to societal pressure. They will continue down that road until the institution is a mere shadow of its former self. Other groups will arise. The Boy Scouts made a short-term bid for peace by waving the white flag of tolerance and compassion. Instead of the Scouts being a place where a young boy can escape from his problems for a time, have solace in knowing that there is a place where he doesn’t have to worry about ‘that stuff’ for awhile, he is now to be continually confronted with ‘that stuff’ wherever he turns. And that is a great pity.

  18. avatar Richard Thomas says:

    It’s sad because the organization had played an important role forming men, just as the Girl Scouts did for young women. It’s too bad all this is now over. Society loses. We all lose. Another set of institutions, once helping the framework of society are now no longer contributing to it’s upkeep. So society has just sunk lower into the toilet.

  19. avatar annonymouse says:

    Gretchen, I appreciate your thoughtful post, and perhaps your perspective is correct. I do find interesting that you find “compassion” to be a bad thing. Do you really mean that? I can’t think of a better word to describe the love we are called to exhibit as Christians than compassion.

  20. avatar Gretchen says:

    I meant, of course, the politically correct iterations of tolerance and compassion. But thanks for pointing that out so I could clarify.

  21. avatar Dominick Anthony Zarcone says:

    “After reading this verbatim quote from the CCC,
    is it just to “disassociate” from the person tempted
    to homosexuality?”

    To DanielKane, I didn’t suggest disassociating
    from the person (s!) afflicted with same-sex

    I suggest to “Disassociate from the BSA which
    has capitulated to the “gay agenda”.

    That agenda promotes and congratulates
    “coming out”. That agenda is proud about
    homosexuality and would promote coming
    out and engaging in this “alternative lifestyle”
    both as positive goods.

    To that agenda the BSA have caved in.

    If there were no societal effort to accept
    and approve this as something good (other
    than improper, unnatural), of course the boy
    scouts could be a safe haven for a confused
    boy/teenager to sort things out and have strong
    male role models.

    But the trend in our culture is such that the
    Catholic church must disassociate from the BSA.

    Years ago,,already, I had heard it said,
    “50 years ago, homosexualality was the love
    ashamamed to name it self. Today it is the
    love that refuses to shut up.

    Love young men, be present to them.
    Listen, counsel,instruct.


    Disassociate from the BSA!

  22. avatar Dominick Anthony Zarcone says:

    Michael Voris on the Boy Scouts of America and the Catholic Church

  23. avatar Hopefull says:

    Thanks, DAZ. Michael Voris did a fantastic job explaining why parents cannot in good conscience continue to allow their sons to be in Boy Scouts. The Catholic Scouts of America makes a lot more sense!

  24. avatar militia says:

    Early stories of pulling Catholic troops out of the BSA and forming Scouts of St. George:

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