I thought it might be interesting to have you comment on this post with anything your parish might be doing to get ready for the implementation of the Third Edition of the Roman Missal. Please tell us what’s going on in your church, whether or not the priest(s) or administrator(s) is (are) enthusiastic about this – names aren’t necessary. I myself have heard some very entertaining, insightful, and thought-provoking comments, so I’m sure you have as well. One of the best lines I’ve heard:
“Well, we’re getting ready for this new missal, whose translation is much more in keeping with the true Spirit of Vatican II. We’ve got to remember that the edition we use now, as venerable as it may be, came out of an era of ‘free love’ and free translation.”
I was visiting friends in the Cincinnati area this past weekend and attended mass at St. Bernard parish in Dayton, Kentucky (Diocese of Covington). They had several large yellow cards, printed by the diocese, in each pew that provided the new translations (very helpful). The presiding priest spent most of his homily going over the changes line by line and explaining why the changes were necessary and more faithful to the original texts. He placed the changes into the context of making our liturgy less about us and “community” and more about actually worshiping God. Evidently, the new translations are being handled this way in each parish throughout the Diocese of Covington.
I heard about the new translation coming about years ago from a lay leader at church, long before I saw it announced it print or heard about it from the pulpit. This lay leader, a devout Catholic, told us that she had a problem with the new translation at the point where the congregation responds to the priest after the priest tells the Congregation “The Lord be with you. Current English translation at the time was “And also with you.” The new translation which would be put into effect was “And with your spirit.” She saw the new translation as depicting the priest as less earthly than the congregation with the words addressing his spirit, but not his entire being composed of flesh like the rest of us.
I remember the Latin – Priest Celebrant -“Dominus vobiscum.” Congregation – “Et cum spiritu tuo.” The new translation is more accurate to Latin. But whether people agree with the words or like the change, that’s another matter.
I like Latin in songs and particular spots in the mass, but overall, people are more involved and paying more attention to the words and what is going on than in the past – and questioning if something does not seem right.
One foreseeable problem will be the awkwardness of the Congregation (and probably the Priest Celebrant) when reciting and responding with the new words of the Mass. The new responses in English were learned a long while ago and then people memorized them through rote learning (repetition). It does not mean people are not thinking about what they are saying and contemplating it when said by memory, although it can occur. Now people will have to learn the new responses in English all over again.
Another foreseeable “occurrence” is people who do not agree with some of the new wording refusing to comply by silence in those spots or speaking aloud or muttering under their breath, the old words.
While Diocesan appointed Co-Administrators were facilitating the Planning and Implementing of a newly encorporated parish in the northeast of Rochester, parishioners were given bulletin insert reflections on the parts of the mass. We also had a number of homilies on the subject of the mass against the backdrop of the revised English translation. All of that happened in February, 2011.
Since then our parish has heard little mention of the changes coming. If there have been other instructions for the entire parish, forgive my lapse in memory. Either those instructions left no lasting impression on me or perhaps I am experiencing something more severe than senior moments. I just do not recall any recent preparation.
Last Sunday, however, one of our many deacons opened his homily with what seemed to be an expression of forced acceptance of what we can’t object to now. I really wondered if he were trying to tell us that we could or would object to it later. Sometimes it is very difficult to make out the good deacon’s point. Yet this time he did clearly convey a lack of enthusiasm for the changes. Perhaps he doesn’t understand the changes.
Any way, whether our parish prepares us or not; whether our pastoral leaders are enthusiastic about the changes or not; I am getting ready with anticipation for renewal in liturgical worship. I bought Jimmie Akin’s MASS REVISION and I go on line to bone up on Latin and its
best English translation.
http://www.ocp.org/newmasssettings/chant-resources
Try the above link.
First Things also has an excellent article by Mr. Esolen. He goes into the restoration of the meaning and poetry of the Latin text. Again, not to grind an axe, but, if we’re the TRUE Faith, while the Jewish children learn Hebrew to pray the Torah, and Moslem children learn to speak read and write Arabic, and I’m pretty sure the serious Japanese-American Buddhist children learn Japanese, and Indian-American children learn Hindi and Sanskrit to pray in the local Hindu temples, we have a problem with changing to a more accurate translation in English?
Certainly, we worship in Spirit and Truth, so we’re not tied to a sacred language, but, I’m sure you regulars will agree, some of the whining we’re getting is rather embarrassing, it sounds so, like, anti-intellectual, even… Would that we were discussing in the Sunday Homilies the finer points of distinction between the meaning and poetry between the Latin and the Greek (in the Latin and the Greek). Now, THAT would be like, interesting, man! Ss. Peter and Paul, pray for us!
brother of penance – You are not experiencing lapses in memory. Your assessment is quite accurate. The continual changes in regard to pastoral administration, priest celebrants, the Northeast Cluster (St. Frances Xavier Cabrini Parish) Planning Process, the changes brought about by interim pastoral administration including the dismissal of significant staff members, the dismissal of Fr. Vincent Panepinto from priesthood, hence St. Frances Xavier Cabrini Parish,(after we were informed of Fr. Dennis Shaw’s dismissal of priesthood since he had served at St. Andrew Church), the alleged thievery -grand larceny -of Fr. Vincent Panepinto from Our Lady of the Americas, hence, St. Frances Xavier Cabrini Parish, and problems arising from a broken water main, and then vandalism on the roof – appeared to take center stage and put the changes involved with the new English Translation of the Mass on the back burner.
July 2011 – Our new permanent priests and permanent deacon arrived. They (particularly the deacon) were confronted with overwhelming circumstances to take care of, including closing the deal for the sale of St. Andrew Church and the renovation of Annunciation Church. August – September 2011 – was involved with planning the Celebration Mass of the Church while the statues and other religious artifacts were still present. October 2011 – was involved with saying good-bye to our spiritual home, St. Andrew Church. It also involved the clearing out of St. Andrew Church and the transporting of particular items that would still be used at Annunciation Church. The remainder of October 2011 and currently November 2011 – has been used to get people acquainted and used to Annunciation Church while still completing projects in the church and decorating/placing religious items in the church. The bathroom facilities were not completed when we first moved, but were completed in the first week. There were still issues concerning placement of pews in front and how to arrange the music group, last Sunday – the removal of all the pews (from St. Andrew Church) to be replaced by chairs with kneelers with the kitchen chairs still in the back, and the continual dilemma of how to get the large sanctuary crucifix from St. Andrew Church on the wall of the sanctuary of Annunciation Church. (Supports have to be built, etc.)
With the continual changes and the grieving involved with all the changes, the new translation was not addressed in the same frequency, thoroughness, and duration as other churches who were not posed with these considerations.
(Remember-the parishioners from 1.Church of the Annunciation lost their church-the newer church which they had been worshiping in since the late 60’s was closed and sold. The parishioners of 2.St. Philip Neri had their church closed and sold. 3.St. George Lithuanian Church was closed at the beginning of the Northeast Cluster Planning Process. The parishioners of 4.Holy Redeemer had their church closed and sold and then went to St. Francis Xavier. 5.St. Francis Xavier was closed and sold and made into a mosque, 5.Our Lady of Mount Carmel was closed and is up for sale, 6.Our Lady of Perpetual Help was closed (I was told it was sold -would like to get verification), and 7.St. Andrew Church was closed and sold).- So goes the Roman Catholic church life in the Northeast Section of the city of Rochester.
Understandably, with all these changes, particularly in 2011, the changes in English translation of the mass were difficult to incorporate fully in view of all the other changes going on involving continual grieving and adjusting.
I had some friends from church sent me the new English translations via e-mail a few weeks ago and I have gone over them. We will get through this new translation.
Try this link.
http://www.sanctamissa.org/en/tutorial/ordo-missae-0.html
http://www.boston-catholic-journal.com/liber-psalmorum/book-of-psalms-audio-files-in-latin.htm
http://catholicaudio.blogspot.com/2007/08/more-latin-prayers.html
Whether or not the pastoral leaders at our Parish prepare us, there are those links like the ones above that help us see Latin, hear Latin, learn Latin and Pray in Latin.
Weigel writes about the new translation.
Enjoy.
“Breaking Bad Liturgical Habits
EPPC Distinguished Senior Fellow George Weigel welcomes the introduction of the new translation of the Roman Missal on November 27 and predicts that “the Catholic Church will be reminded of just what a treasure-house of wonders the liturgy is.”
http://www.eppc.org/publications/pubID.4587/pub_detail.asp
Ho hum. Maybe the changes will take my mind off of the battering rams (other issues) which are being beaten against the gates of heaven and the earthly church by Satan and his cohorts!!
Before the changes take place, you have to awaken the congregants that are left and also announce them to the Easter/Christmas skin deep Catholics.
We haven’t done much as a parish, but the Archdiocese has leaflets and personal missals and flyers thrown all over the place. The Archbishop sent out a letter, decreeing that we must only us ONE setting for the new Translation, which is in a book called “Celebrate in Song” which we MUST use, writtend by Fr Geoffrey Angeles. But as a parish, we’ve done nothing. People know it’s changing, and most of them have little blue missals to help them practise, that’s it.
Thank God for the TLM still, though 😉
I can understand Brother Raymond Rice’s Ho Hum.
The problem is taking our eyes off of the King, the Lord Jesus Christ.
Let us exalt him! Let us proclaim him! Let us worship him!
Father Robert Barron says the new translation is language fit for a king.
How about that.
Listen up Diocese of Rochester, priests, deacons and others who are not enthusisatic.
http://www.wordonfire.org/WOF-Radio/Sermons/Sermon-Archive-for-2011/Sermon-567-Language-Fit-for-a-King-34th-Sunday.aspx
Brother of Penance,
Thank you so much for the many links! I look forward to exploring all of them.
Bishop brandt of greensburg, pa said today (amongst a decent homily) as a side note, “next week starts the new translation -who knows how that’ll go?”. I have no idea what the diocese or cathedral parish has done in preparation, but I found that comment odd.
In my parish, because it is a sacred book that has been used for years, the book was brought forward and officially recognized and retired by the priest, having served its purpose. It was then carried down the aisle in a very dignified manner for the last time.
I guess I am confused. If Sacramentaries were de-commissioned today, then what will the priest be using at all the daily Masses this coming week?
Good riddance. Bring on the new Missal!
Our Celebration this Sunday at Annunciation Church of St. Frances Xavier Cabrini Church for the Feast of Christ the King – was fit for a King – the King of Kings.
Fr. Bob Werth gave an Extraordinary Homily, taking the time to explain the different facets within his Homily. Fr. Werth’s homily gave great honor to God while leaving us with a stirring message.
Fr. Bob Werth explained the special preface in the mass today for the Feast of Christ the King and took his time, emphasizing the words, giving them due reverence in honoring our Savior and King.
Deacon Bob Meyer and the lay ministers also added to our celebration in a special way.
The music group had a wonderful song selection and gave glory to God through their beautiful music.
The congregation was participatory and truly paid homage to Christ their King.
It was a beautiful celebration.
At the end of our mass, our Sacred Missal was brought forward and given a de-commissioning ceremony which also including a prayer asking that all those who had heard those words through the years be blessed.
Some of us talking after mass, relayed we still had our Latin/ English Roman Missals from the 1960’s.
AT my parish, we have cards with the new translations and chant music. The pastor has written extensively about the changes.
That said, what can all this mean? Some writers have suggested a somewhat muted response because of the turmoil surrounding the closing of churches. People in those parishes simply have other more important things to think about – what the closings mean to their parish communities and solidarity. For them, Mass translations are secondary. And we have the study, commissioned byt he bishops themselves, that documents a dwindling attendance at Mass, some of which is due to the scandals and the bishops’ incompetent response. People seem to be ticked off at this distraction, the ordering and acceptance of a new translation, the ridiculous masculinization of service at the altar whereby some bishops and pastors have banned altar girls on the dubious grounds that vocations to the priesthood are related somehow to altar serving. In all the parishes that I have been in before altar girls were allowed, NO vocations to the priesthood from those parishes. Then, some people have the nerve to say that”boys just aren’t volunteering to be alatr boys”. Duh. Where have people been? Haven’t they read the papers about some of the sick and disgusting priests who have groomed altar boys for their pleasure? There is a real concern by some aprents that they aren’t going to let their boys come under the sway of the parish priest! Serving at the altar is NOT for the purpose of recruiting future priests.
We will do our best with the new translation and offer our sacrifice and prayers to God through Christ. Claims that it will work all kinds of miracles for the Church are just marketing hype.
Oh, another thing – in the past three weeks, our music director has introduced the chant responses. They have been a disaster so far, in my opinion.
Whew – I’m glad I got that off my chest! Time to go to Confession!
I too live and worship in a parish where much has been written about how this new translation will bring us closer to God. Our music director has gone out of her way to stress the positives of the new missal. We will be using the missal chants (Gregorian) except for the Gloria. That being said I am not sure how this is to bring us closer to God. With all the “positive” push on this it does not seem that the 3rd Edition is selling itself. The wording and phrasing is cumbersome, awkward and archaic. Those are not words which I use to describe God and His relationship with His people. It has been said that one of the reasons for this exact translation is to enable us to be closer to God but also the enable translations into other languages that do not translate from Latin but do from English. Thus this translation is a tool for other translation but does not help the average English speaking American. It reads like a “pony or trot” translation from my Latin days in high school and college. Sorry but that is what I think and how I feel. I do not envy our priests trying to make this into meaningful worship. Now I wonder if we will be have the Douay translation being encouraged as the only “fit” translation of the Sacred Scriptures?
Just curious if one of the priests at your parish signed the “What if we just said wait?” petition?
If the people implementing these changes are kicking and screaming, it seems only natural that this negative attitude would filter down to the laypeople in the pews (like yourself).
Dr. K
It is interesting that you chose to jump on “one of the priests at your parish”. First there is only one priest and he serves three parishes that are each 15 miles from the other two. Secondly he has not signed the aforesaid document and has not said anything disparaging about RM 3 and has been present during the teaching times with the Music Director. You seem too quick to jump on our priest.
y2kscotty & 14860,
You might be helped if you informed your ignorance a little by listening to David Tedesche’s excellent series on the new mass:
http://www.stcharlesgreece.org/new_roman_missal/
if you’re wondering why I chose the word ignorance, here’s some examples:
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/08/what-romes-cdw-says-about-altar-boys-girl-altar-boys-and-lay-service-at-the-altar-in-general/
says you.
hadn’t heard the miracles one. It is better and will perhaps make people remember what the mass is all about.
so it might be a little rocky for a while – big deal! We’re Catholics – we say the same mass every week of our lives (more frequently for those lucky enough to go daily). We’ll get plenty of practice and before you can blink, you’ll know it (no matter how hard you resist). Can you even imagine the difficulty of switching from the old mass to the new mass? How much of a disaster do you think that must’ve been? Are you simply disputing change for change’s sake or only changes you don’t like?
it makes you ask the question… what is this word? why is it here? what does it mean? it makes us not so stupid.
kind of gives you an idea of where the liturgy comes from, doesn’t it?
do you know where our liturgy comes from? do you know that your approval wasn’t requested?
I hadn’t heard that one – do you have a source?
I believe the NAB will make it’s way out of the liturgy in the next couple of decades.
While they are at it, they might want to “can” the terrible hymnal that we use at our church. It is full of non-Catholic hymns of the 18-19th century.!!!!
I didn’t realize that I was talking to you, 14860, as I clearly cited a passage from the post made by Y2K. Unless you’re posting as more than one person?
You seem too quick to jump on me.
My only concern if the literal translation will render the appropriate term or message in some spots as literal understandings have changed through the years.
As an example, my father told me that Catholic friends of his were not happy with the new edition-I believe it was The New American Bible 2011 Edition. He told me of a few of the changes that they cited that they were not happy with. I remember one of them was the sign for the Savior. The word virgin was replaced with young woman. So instead of “the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel”-Isaiah 7:14-it is “the young woman shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.”
Now how unusual a sign is that – a young woman pregnant and giving birth to a baby boy?
I have heard that the word “almah” has been translated as girl, young woman, and maiden. Maiden referring to an unmarried woman-usually a young unmarried woman. No ill intent meant, but tell me how unusual it is to find a young unmarried woman pregnant and then give birth to a male child. And perhaps it’s more rare for them to name their child Immanuel or Emmanuel, but it’s probably not that uncommon.
Nowadays,young woman, or even maiden, are not synonymous with virgin.
However,the Greek translation that was used by Jews for a couple centuries before the birth of Christ, uses the more specific “parthenos” , which means virgin. At that time an unmarried “almah” would be assumed to be a “parthenos.”
Regarding the previous post from me – My father who is Protestant (high church) agreed with his Catholic friends. My father wondered how they could change the word virgin to young woman because it changes the whole concept of the sign of the Savior’s birth. I agree with my father and friends. I do not think it would matter anywhere else, but as a sign of the Savior’s birth it matters.
The purist for of transmission of the Mass and New Testament is the original Greek. Please note the retention of Kyrie eleison, Christe eleison. IMHO the current translation might have been better served if it had been taken from the Greek rather than an imprecise and less nuanced Latin. St Jerome did the best he could with what he had at the time but he can be improved upon.
I have heard no one in favor of the new translation making grand claims about it. In fact, I have suggested that it keeps the NO liturgy on life support when frankly, the plug ought to be pulled. But it is still much improved over the utterly trivializing language of the previous translation.
Raymond, David Tedesche has a pretty good argument against that in his audio series. I won’t do it justice, but basically the liturgy isn’t the same as scripture. It has had a life of it’s own. Our liturgy is Latin – that is the root of it. It has grown and evolved from Latin. Yes, the earliest New Testament manuscripts we have are in Greek, but that’s a different thing than saying our (ie – Latin Catholics) liturgy should be in Greek.
“but that’s a different thing than saying our (ie – Latin Catholics) liturgy should be in Greek.”
I meant that the words used should be translated directly from the Greek.
yes, I know – I didn’t make that clear. let me clarify
“but that’s a different thing than saying our (ie – Latin Catholics) liturgy should be translated from Greek.”
Our liturgy is in Latin not Greek. Much of it comes from scripture, but much of it does not and even many of the scriptural references are meant to be word for word from the scripture. Our liturgy has grown and evolved in Latin (not Greek).
Again, Scott “nails it.”