Cleansing Fire

Defending Truth and Tradition in the Roman Catholic Church


Is women’s ordination a heresy?

October 30th, 2011, Promulgated by benanderson

Is women’s ordination a heresy? This is the question I posed to Jimmy Akin. In short, his answer is “no, but…”. In my mind Jimmy is about as balanced, objective, and thorough as they come and I owe much of my conversion to him. If you’re not subscribed to his podcast, then you’re missing out on space bishops, zero gravity masses, and much, much more. Here’s the full show:


PLEASE NOTE: In regards to the last question, I intended it more as an academic exercise. After listening to the question, I realized it might come off as if I’m saying, “pretty please let the answer be yes.” That was not my intent and in hind sight I should have left it out or phrased it differently.

You might also be interested in hearing Jimmy take Michael Voris to task.
My usual disclaimer on Voris: I’ve been critical of some of the things he’s said and his overall approach. However, I do think his message needs to be heard. Just make sure you don’t take his word as Gospel (as Jimmy eloquently demonstrates).  To those who would discredit all value to Voris, though, you should watch this video on the ongoing saga of Fr Rodriguez. I certainly respect the way he stands up for the faith.


12 Responses to “Is women’s ordination a heresy?”

  1. avatar brother of penance says:

    Michael Voris seems to have become quite a controversial figure.

    Last November Ben posted on Michael Voris and it seems that our own MIKE appreciates and sees the value in Voris’ work while other were more critical.

    This Year’s World Youth Day Organizers went out of their way to declare that Michael Voris was not an official world youth day presenter.

    And now Jimmy Akin on Michael Voris.

    One thing for sure, Michael Voris has people’s attention.

    I do not like the way he smirks and puts his hand or hands in his pockets. Moreover, he seems to enjoy pointing out the problems and problem people in the Church. Frankly, his topics should cause him and his audience to cry, to shed tears, to beat our breasts asking God to have mercy on us. Michael Voris smiles, smirks and seems to enjoy telling us the horrible things he tells us.

    Yet, I watch and listen to him every day. Am I trapped in the Vortex and can’t get out? Am I hooked?

    I must admit his you tube daily shows are entertaining and interesting. And he is somewhat informative. I just hope my soul is not being harmed by the Vortex.

    Isn’t that what really needs to be asked? Does Michael Voris help us on our way to sanctity?
    Or is he and his show harmful to us by forming and shaping interior dispositions so unlike the ones that Our Holy God Almighty desires for us?

    I listen to Catholic Answers Live. But to be honest, Patrick and Jimmie sometimes rub me the wrong way with their unnecessary attempts to be witty and funny. I sense these are really humble, grateful guys gifted for the work God has given them. Their humor sometimes is irritating.

    None of us is perfect. Each of us has a role to play in the great work of calling people to faith, hope and love. Michael Voris sees his part and plays it day in day out. Is he helping or hurting?

  2. avatar Persis says:

    brother of penance-
    What a beautiful response!! 🙂 Thank you!

  3. avatar Choir says:

    I have no problem with either Michael Voris or Jimmy Akin. Their styles and approaches are different and I enjoy each of them.

    I would, however, like to say that I wouldn’t judge (is that the right word?) Mr. Voris by the “way he smirks and puts his hand or hands in his pockets.” We see Michael Voris, we don’t see Jimmy Akin. Maybe he is also smirking. Who knows.

    “He seems to enjoy pointing out the problems and problem people in the Church.” Isn’t the “enjoy” part a bit of editorializing?

    There may be another factor going on between Voris and Akin and that is of rating. Akin is on Catholic radio and has a wider audience; whereas, as far as I know, Voris is solo. Different personalities are used to gain a broader audience share. Locally look at the personality difference between Brother Wease and Bob Lonsberry. They are looking for ratings, and ratings are somewhat based on the host’s particular style. I think the same is true of Voris and Akin.

    I enjoy Akin sense of humour and his wittiness.

    I do enjoy both and I listen to both and will continue listening to both. I did enjoy your post brother of penance.

    Oremus pro invicem.

  4. avatar Richard Thomas says:

    It seems the laity in El Paso are mor pro=active than here in Ra Cha Cha. Has there ever been an occasion where people prayed in front of the chancery to protest some of the things this bishop has done. Perhaps the laity in Rochester is lukewarm or perhaps couldnt care less.

  5. avatar JLo says:

    I’m with you Choir. It’s not quite fair (nor enlightening) to judge content by way of personal aversion to delivery, looks, mannerisms, etc. Content is what I look for, and I hope everyone else does, too.

    Michael Voris seems to tackle subjects that other more gentle apologists don’t care to bring up, and that should be fine with us. We need all kinds out there teaching, and surely there’s room for the bold and outspoken as well as the more reflective and calm. Wasn’t St. Paul noted for his in-your-face style and speaking out in the societies and communities of the places he found himself? The man was always in trouble, with the people and with the authorities!

    Let’s take great care regarding content, advising each other of the wrong-headed, but take all people with kind regard where delivery is concerned… in print, too! 🙂 +JMJ

  6. avatar Richard Thomas says:

    I have two issues with Michael Vorheis.

    First is his arrogance, as others have mentioned. I cannot think of Mother Theresa or St. Francis ever trying to evangelize with such condesention.

    The second is what he said on a recent edition concerning salvation He stated that outside the Catholic Church there was no salvation. That clearly is false. Protestants do share some of Christs salvation but not the complete picture.

  7. avatar Giovanni says:

    @ Richard… I wasn’t aware he said anything like that… Not only can protestant receive salvation but also those who are not even christian… as put forth in the Catechim:

    Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

    When he said there is no salvation outsdie the church do you think he meant that one has to be catholic? or did he mean it as it is usually intended… there is no salvation without Christ (whether we realize it is Christ saviing us or not… his sacrifice is what saves us). This later interpretation would be correct.

  8. avatar Richard Thomas says:


    It was my understanding it was that outside the Catholic faith there was no salvation. You have to do some searching but the topic was given within the last two months. Vorheis has condemned Protestantism. We know it’s a heresy but what Vorheis says goes too far.

  9. avatar Dr. K says:

    Regarding salvation and the Catholic Church, let’s leave who is and isn’t saved to God at the hour of judgment. In the mean time, let’s do all that we can to get as many people as we possibly can to embrace Christ and His Church.

  10. avatar christian says:

    I agree with Dr. K’s post.
    I’m with Choir and JLo’s comments, that each person has their individual style. We should listen and weigh what each person has to say and decide from there. It is up to us to decide if a person, their style, or what they have to say is helping or hurting us. So often, we can agree with most of what person has to say or write, but not with everything someone says or writes. I do think Michael Voris is informative even if I don’t accept everything he has to say.
    Brother of Penance – I know that you are sincere in your faith and discerning of yourself as well as others, not to be a critic, but because you love the Lord so much and want him to be honored and praised to the fullest extent in truth, with great fervor and unpolluted heart.
    Richard Thomas – I agree with your observation that the people of the Diocese are not pro-active enough in praying in front of the chancery to protest some of the actions the Bishop has done.

  11. avatar JLo says:

    I can’t believe that Michael Voris meant that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation. I plan to hunt for the offending piece, but Michael Voris always talks of the Church as Christ, and until I hear that bit you mention, Richard, I think I’ll believe THAT’S what Voris meant… outside of the Church there is no salvation because Christ IS the Church! As to his delivery being seen by you as arrogant… well, people have varied perceptions, and I won’t fault your view of a person and hope you’ll accept that I look for his content and have no problem with his delivery.

    Reminds me of Patrick Madrid’s telling Protestants (two of them) during a radio debate when they were pounding him about “only Catholics go to heaven” and he was battling back. He wound up his explanation by saying that he believes as the Church teaches about salvation and who can/is saved and they were mistaken about what the Catholic Church believes on the subject and teaches, but Patrick told those guys that he is firm in his belief that when they get to heaven, they will find that everyone there, in heaven, IS Catholic! He left those agistate guys laughing and friendly.

    Gotta love Patrick Madrid’s delivery… upbeat, never condescending, always enlightening and targeted and true. As he always says, seek not to win the argument, but the war, so be kind.

    If anyone finds the Voris item of bad info that Richard mentions, I would certainly like to be linked. If I find it, I’ll post the link.


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