Cleansing Fire

Defending Truth and Tradition in the Roman Catholic Church


Catholics only need listen to the God within them

July 5th, 2011, Promulgated by Mike

A Letter to the Editor in Sunday’s D&C took issue with an earlier LTE which warned Catholic politicians to consider their eternal destiny when voting on issues such as same-sex ‘marriage.’

After questioning the previous writer’s credentials to present Catholic teaching, Sunday’s author penned this little gem,

In my experience as a Catholic, I have come to believe that a truly faith-filled person embraces the living God that dwells within each of us and, therefore, listens carefully to his God speaking to him. Therein lies the truth.

In my world, it is conceivable that Gov. Cuomo has unveiled the Truth.

In this Catholic’s world it must be mystifying that Jesus left us a Church empowered to teach in his name. In this Catholic’s world Jesus had to have been kidding when he said, “”He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me” (Luke 10:16).

No, none of that would seem to have any significance in this Catholic’s world. And why should it, when God speaks “the Truth” directly to any “truly faith-filled person”?

I’ve said before that Catholics have been the victims of two generations of abysmal catechesis. The predictable results are now coming home to roost.



13 Responses to “Catholics only need listen to the God within them”

  1. avatar Rosemary says:

    Unfortunately, we are seeing the fruit of “the Spirit of Vatican II” in those who believe that each of us can remake God in our own image. It was this sort of navel-gazing that contributed to the decline of the Episcopal church (of which I was formerly a member). “Informed conscience” not just “conscience” must be our guide — informed by the Church and by sacred scripture. Otherwise, we become a congregation of one; just one more denomination to add to the tens of thousands of Protestant groups.

  2. avatar Scott W, says:

    Let’s change a few words:

    In my experience as a board member of the NAACP, I have come to believe that a truly tolerant person embraces the conscience that dwells within each of us and, therefore, listens carefully to his conscience speaking to him. Therein lies the truth.

    In my world, it is conceivable that David Duke has unveiled the Truth.

    In other words, just about anywhere else, you’d expect a supporter of David Duke and his worldview would get tossed out on his ear. But a Catholic who publically rejects whole chunks of binding teachings gets a pass because of the major error of our time regarding conscience: as a cover for subjectivism and moral relativism.

  3. avatar MichaelL says:

    Hi. I came across your website when I was looking for information on Bishop Clark with regards to the “homosexual marriage” issue. I have written an article on this topic and have linked to some of your articles. You can read it here:
    Bishop Matthew Clark of Rochester and the issue of “homosexual marriage”
    I would appreciate any comments, either here or at my article. Some of the things that have gone on in the Rochester diocese are truly beyond belief. You have my prayers. Jesus, I trust in you!

    As for this letter to the editor, things like this have given me an understanding of the importance of verse 10 of Psalm 110:

    For forty years I loathed that generation
    and said, “They are a people who err in heart,
    and they do not regard my ways.”

    My generation is wandering in the desert and will never be allowed to see the Promised Land. There are graces and virtues in abundance to be had by those willing to seek them. Think of God showering his Love down upon us, only to have it rejected. Think how much we can console the Sacred Heart of Christ through our little acts of devotion in such a time as we are living in. Jacinta, Francisco, Lucia, pray for us.

  4. avatar Raymond Rice says:

    Everyone on here might want to consider reading what St Ignatius Loyola had to say about the process for discerning the will of God in our lives. Essentially he talks about what God says in your heart and then your verifying the new found intuition of the heart with what the general Catholic Church believes, not just what the Vaticanistas believe, or some of the hierarchy. Discernment process is similar to the process used by the papacy to help determine what teachings are infallible and what are not. God’s promise of infallibility was made to the church as a whole with the papacy as a catalyst or flash point for beliefs. If you recall. when Pius 12 was going to present the Assumption as an infallible teaching, he wrote to all the bishops in the world to verify if the belief in the Assumption was held specifically by them and by most of the members of the laity whom they represented in their office as bishop. When a majority of the bishops by themselves and as representatives of their flocks responded in the affirmative, the doctrine was decreed to be infallible!

  5. avatar Raymond Rice says:

    anonymous 84149: i would nor say we have had no religious formation in the past 40 years. Why do you think Mother Angelica has her own network and Father Fessio the Ignatius Press??? God works in funny ways; He helped found a TV network !!The situation is that a lot of people have been spiritually formed in spite of the insipid and worthless preaching done today but have had to get it on their own with the direct help of God. Just because the “sheep” are wandering does not mean they have been abandoned.

  6. avatar Louis E. says:

    So I wonder how big a delegation Rochester will be sending to Albany in September?
    It could be something of a last hurrah for Clark’s and Hubbard’s policies on homosexuality.(I didn’t download their PDF on guest speakers,did they invite Cuomo?)

  7. avatar MichaelL says:

    Mike. This is totally off-topic. Is the name “cleansing fire” at all related to the book “Cleansing Fire” by Peter B. Kelley?

    [This comment has been restored after being accidentally deleted because it was marked as spam]

  8. avatar Anonymous II says:

    Anonymous 190145;
    If this is the case and your data (please cite) is correct, adult Catholics have been living on pablum for 50 years! ! !

    Louis E.

    Why not go to the conference in Albany and hear what the bishop and priests etc have to say?? It is wise to thoroughly know and understand the opposition!!

  9. avatar Hopefull says:

    The health minister of India has “derided” homosexuality as an unnatural “disease” from the West…. He seems to have more of a grip on reality than the NYS Senate and Assembly, and more courage to speak out than many DoR preachers. Third world logic and common sense — keeping hope alive?

  10. avatar CBD says:

    We can predict that LTE writer will not be corrected by anyone in her parish – certainly not from the priest. She’s writing what she has been taught. The “truth” is manifested by anyone who thinks God is moving them to liberalize society, apparently. This leads to the contradiction of “conflicting truths” about the same moral issue — and this is usually resolved by simple mandate for the morally permissive option.

    Regarding EWTN and Ignatius Press – true, those have been great sources. But it underscores the point that we’ve been so deprived of solid catechisis in Rochester that we have to look to a cable TV show and to order books from a select few of the Catholic publishing companies (Ignatius was persecuted and shunned by the professional-Catholics, especially in Rochester) in order to find substantial and correct teaching.

    If your parish bookstore (what’s that?) stocks an ample supply of Ignatius and Tan Catholic books, that’s a rare privilege.

    Let’s pray that our priests will actually read such books (or even watch ETWN) and start to preach on the content found there.

  11. avatar Thinkling says:

    A belated thank you to MichaelL for his parallel work. I am glad you and the folks here can get your heads together now.

    On that collaborative note, it was sobering to note that I learned a few things from MichaelL’s article (nothing downright surprising, but new nonetheless). And I saw his comment that he learned a few things from the resources here. This is indeed good, at least for the sake of *T*ruth. For the sake of the *t*ruth on the ground at DoR, it is however quite distressing – as his comment suggests.

    A belated thank you too for the folks here at CF and the work you do. As a former diocean member I am lucky to not have the challenges you face, but yet remember enough spores of nonsense to be genuinely appreciative.

  12. avatar MichaelL says:

    Thank you Thinkling. I have watched some of Michael Voris’ videos in the past and thought that he was over the top. But I had never encountered the type of liturgical abuse that exists in Rochester. It puts things in a different perspective. I attend Novus Ordo Mass in Spanish and while at times I wish the music was more reverent, I appreciate the faithfulness and devotion of those who attend. I tried attending a Tridentine Mass and it’s not for me. I didn’t really care for the Latin. But at least with the Tridentine Mass, the Church had clear rules about how Mass was to be celebrated. When we enter the House of the Lord, we need to do so with humility. It’s His House and we need to follow His rules. If there is some doubt then we should be conservative and be guided by tradition.

  13. avatar JLo says:

    I posted this elsewhere, but since the subject is the same (conscience and instruction and Voris), I’ll post it here as well, with apologies to those who read it elsewhere at CF.

    Would that Abp. Dolan and others in NY had stood with their people on street corners and preached the truth with which Catholics must examine their conscience. Instead, we got a letter here and there which probably reached a very low percentage of the faithful (and those who think their conscience is their own to inform).

    I stand with Voris in his belief that the Church in America does too little to save our culture from the speedy slide down that slippery slope. Statements here and there are not nearly enough, especially in this electronic age when they COULD be doing so much more to instruct, which is their duty; and the street-corner preaching as was done by saints in days gone by would surely get the needed attention… even such as the NYT would cover that!!

    America has become mission territory just because of inactive bishops who are uninvolved in their people’s lives, lack courage and energy, and even worse, those who demand the priests in their care keep silent and unobserved, too… does anyone remember Terry Schiavo? +JMJ

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