Bishop Clark”s Forward in Hope book tour is well underway. The latest tour stop is Church of the Transfiguration in Pittsford.
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One can only wonder what is meant by “What do we believe the future of ordained ministry needs to look like?”
Here is how the bishop and many of our diocesan leaders would probably answer:
Anne-Marie Brogan front and center while her sacramental pez dispensers play second fiddle
What about Ms. Bruney and Goodwin?
I think it is really unfair of Bishop Clark to drum up all the noise over women pastoral administrators, to encourage women to go to school to prepare for such roles, with the likelihood (I hope) that the next bishop will stop the nonsense, and those in and preparing for the roles will be out on the street. True Sr. Joan will retire, but others will have spent money, time and energy preparing for a ministry they won’t have (Pastoral Administrator). Not even talking about ordination, which any of them should have enough sense to know can’t happen. So what do they end up doing after that preparation? What other job will it qualify them to do? I’m at a loss how, in the long run, this pastoral administrator “push” won’t turn out to be an injustice against the naive and uninformed wishful thinkers.
militia:
The old will retire bitter. The young ones will jump to sects or Protestant congregations with very little retraining. They don’t really believe in the fundamental orthodox teachings of the Catholic Church anyway, and they have no loyalty to the hierarchy, so they will call their ‘demotion’ the last straw -the last “injustice”– and leave to work wherever they can.
I agree, Bishop Clark is setting these people up for great disappointment and possibly even schism. It is highly unlikely that our next bishop will share Clark’s views and vision for the Church.
Then what happens?
Do these lay persons run to the NCR and cry foul? Do they search for another diocese similar to Rochester? (good luck with that — there are few left in 2011) Or more likely, will they run off for Spiritus Christi and other Protestant sects where they can play minister because they have been conned by the bishop into believing they are called by God to these illicit roles?
Who is the guy who looks like he’s draped in a beach towel?
Dis someone say Sacramental Pez Dispenser?
I wonder what the hairstylists do to make most women’s short cuts look feminine, while some other short cuts on women (seen less often) are decidedly manly? Just wondering.
“Anonymous 11:10” wrote: “she blatently defies tradition and prefers to dress up and masquerade..”.
I had a similar impression when I read, online from the Catholic womyn priests group, of a group member who had just been “ordained!”. It was a personal reflection – and it seemed all about a fanciful adulation of the excitement! of wearing the alb! and the stole! It seemed like a big game of dress-up play to me. About that deep…
“Anon” also wrote: “Mother Bruney also brags that she and Goodwin got assigned over priests. I believe the word she used was “coup”. To quote her, “This is quite an honor and a coup for both of us, as our appointments may, in fact, leave some priests who are presently pastors without assignments.” ”
A friend repeated a similar jaw-dropping comment, made directly to her, from a PA at Blessed Sacrament.
And “Hopeful” wrote: “Who is the guy who looks like he’s draped in a beach towel?”
Isn’t that a rainbow stole?
“Militia” wrote: “I think it is really unfair of Bishop Clark to drum up all the noise over women pastoral administrators, to encourage women to go to school to prepare for such roles, with the likelihood (I hope) that the next bishop will stop the nonsense, and those in and preparing for the roles will be out on the street. True Sr. Joan will retire, but others will have spent money, time and energy preparing for a ministry they won’t have (Pastoral Administrator). Not even talking about ordination, which any of them should have enough sense to know can’t happen. So what do they end up doing after that preparation? What other job will it qualify them to do? I’m at a loss how, in the long run, this pastoral administrator “push” won’t turn out to be an injustice against the naive and uninformed wishful thinkers.”
You are right Militia, this is very wrong. Our Church teaches its always wrong when you use other people for your own selfish reasons, or to further your own agenda. Not being an insider, I wonder how they recruit. Flattery? I often see a self-absorbed, self-importance common to St. Bernards grads, so, I wonder how much that is a part of it.
I think it is high time we stop screwing around. When you see these male-women preaching homilies and doing other things only reserved for priests, stand up and say something during Mass. Call it like it is. Tell them they have no business doing what they are doing as it violates Church teaching and law. Why fear embarasssing them if what they are doing is destroying their soul and the souls of others? It is high time we make a courageous stand against this crap from a bunch of baby boomers who don’t seem to realize that 1968 was a lifetime ago.
Militia is dead on right, but I would quibble with this point:
The old will retire bitter. The young ones will jump to sects or Protestant congregations with very little retraining. They don’t really believe in the fundamental orthodox teachings of the Catholic Church anyway, and they have no loyalty to the hierarchy, so they will call their ‘demotion’ the last straw -the last “injustice”– and leave to work wherever they can.
A commentor at my blog pointed out the refreshing candor of “Catholics for Free Choice” member Rosemary Reuther who said she stays in the Catholic Church “Because that’s where the mimeograph machines are.” and that her goal is to change the Church and “to do that, I need to continue to identify as a Catholic, although I also function ecumenically and inter-religiously, so it’s not a limitation for me”. That is to say, if dissenters stay in the Church, they can continue to attempt steal legitimacy and prestige from it. If they leave they are just another Episcopalian.
You are right that they will retire bitter. The good news that even though the young likely won’t leave for the reasons I described, there are not that many of them, and the few of them that hang around are not anywhere near the Balrog-caliber of the likes of Hans Kung et al. D-Day has happened, we may see a few bulge battles, but all that is left to the dissenters is scorched-earth tactics.
If the bishop spent as much time and energy on leading a holy and austere life as he does at seeking to be of historical significance in his own mind, this diocese would be vibrant and flourishing. All his work will be reversed, even those things that seem impossible.
A few months ago, double
agentconvert Anne Rice was mucking up some comboxes, most notably IIRC Tom Peters or one of his colleagues, and Mark Shea. The point was made in all places that only ex-Catholics (I include Reuther and her type in this moniker) seem to try so hard to “fix” Catholicism. Converts to other faiths don’t. When (say) an Anglican converts, he doesn’t make it a crusade to change Anglicanism. When a Muslim converts to Christianity, same thing, no focused effort into changing Islam. In these cases the person simply runs with their new life. But folks like Rice crusade hard to change Catholicism from the outside, and Reuther the same although whether she is inside or outside the faith is above my pay grade.It is good to see that the Sign of Contradiction is alive and well.
Transfiguration parish seems to be caught in a 1970’s time warp. Then again, almost the whole Rochester diocese has a 1970’s-style interpretation of Catholicism that most other dioceses have discarded. BTW, isn’t St. Bernard’s school having difficulty attracting students?
A few months ago, double agent convert Anne Rice was mucking up some comboxes
Oh man I almost forgot about that. On a lark I went over to her website and lo and behold, her feed is full of several bits denying the existence of Hell and opposing the beatification of JPII. Granted, I’m a little ambivalent on the beatification and normally that would be fair game but she’s against it because, you guessed it, he’s an arch-conservative dinosaur. (Which I imagine is news to sspx types :))
Sign of Contradiction, double time.
To anon 11:45 – I agree about the hairstyle comment, but liturgical vestments are fair game. And from the sanctuary background, it appears that it’s lent, so that must be St. Mary’s purple that Fr. Coughlin’s wearing.
Of course, if you look closely, it’s also got red, green and white, so I guess it’s good for any season of the Church year!
Every now and then this blog posts a Michael Voris video. Every now and then someone makes a negative comment about his hairstyle. If that happens I am going to make a good faith assumption that those same people calling out the hair comments here will land on those like a summo wrestler as well; because otherwise they are a bunch of phonies.
Yeah, what’s up with the hair?
I love ya’, Scott!
To resolve the issue of not knowing what anonymous commenter said what, all readers who post anonymously from now on will have a unique user ID affixed to the end of “Anonymous.” This ID will appear with every comment posted by a particular reader.
I hope this is helpful.
>.< I think the DoR needs a good healthy re-calibrating of its concept of "roles in the Church."
I just found your blog this weekend. I’m from the Diocese of Fort Worth, TX. I joined the Church in the early 90s, and fell away for a few years. I returned to the Faith last year during Lent. The worst “Mass” I’ve been to so far is a Charismatic one not long after I became Catholic. Now I attend a TLM (FSSP) at a very lovely parish church. Going through your archives, I really feel sorry for you. I hope your problem gets resolved soon. It’s not right for a bishop to hold such power,at least when no one approves of what he’s doing. I could be wrong. I’m not too familiar with how a diocese ought to run. I will pray for you. And follow your blog.
Its just that it seems to me you have to purposely make a woman’s short-do manly. It seems that some people use their cuts to obscure their femininity. Take talk show host Ellen, for example. She is a public figure and her style is on-purpose. On-purpose her clothing cuts as well as her hair cut have now evolved to obscure her femininity. (And she can afford to make these measured moves with great style).
I am not being catty. No one who knows me considers me catty. I am just being honest about appearances in the posted photo. In it I saw that the person apparently trying to take on a man’s role also had a manly cut. (It kind of looks like a grown-up version of lets-play-dress-up to me). But I don’t know Ms. Brogan. Perhaps she doesn’t have strong preferences about her hair and her hairdresser did her own thing! And perhaps from other angles it doesn’t look like a man-cut. I don’t know. The photo, as is, just sparked an observation.
Some feminist activists seem bent on being manly and obscuring their God-given femininity. They don’t like differences between men and woman in their ideology, and some also carry that ideology into their appearance, apparently. I have no idea if the woman in this picture chose a rather androgynous hairstyle purposefully. But she is pretending to be a priest. That’s on purpose.
I like the differences between men and woman. And I think God did that on purpose.
However, I also realize that for some people there is pain in their sexual identity, stemming often from some past abuse of some kind, something long ago and probably often not even remembered, like perhaps Dad wanted a boy and rejected their femininity, or any number of other problems can have hurt a young child forming his or her identity. So that makes me sad for them. So, I don’t know, maybe it is rude to comment on a woman who wants to be masculine and a man who wants to be feminine, as its often so deeply rooted.
I know to what you refer, Eliza10; however, I have been in Ms. Brogan’s presence a time or two for a funeral and she had a female head of hair. Sometimes we try to read into something that is not there. Some women simply prefer not having to deal with it. There are over 500 Pastoral Administrators in the country. Should we check their hair out? Just whimsing…
Bill, there should be 0 lay pastoral administrators in the country, unless you’re talking about protestant churches, which do not count. There is no place for lay people in ministry, pseudo-ordained or otherwise.
I remember a phrase “reality bites.” That is the situation right now. Changing here, changing there. It all takes time. With a new bishop, he may address PA’s in whatever time he takes. He has to determine what to do after (or before) he becomes our head. It is in the wings in the not too distant future. So we wait. There are still a ton of issues.