Cleansing Fire

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Upcoming “Latin Community Masses”

December 5th, 2014, Promulgated by Hopefull

From the St. Kateri Tekakwitha Bulletin for this coming weekend:

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Remember:  Bishop Matano will be celebrating the 9AM English Mass on Christmas Day; Fr. Bonsignore will celebrate the 11:15 Latin Mass on Christmas, with Bishop Matano in attendance “in choro” (choir dress.)

 

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17 Responses to “Upcoming “Latin Community Masses””

  1. avatar JLo says:

    Why does SKT continue to describe them merely by language?! That’s just not wholly accurate. +JMJ

  2. avatar Sid says:

    I agree it’s confusing, JLo, but I’ll be a little generous to SKT in this case. I think the problem stems because the whole new operation at STA is self-described as “The Latin Mass Community”. With a name like that, people of course expect their main interest is the Latin Mass (and I think it is, no?). So, to make it clear that *both* flavors of Mass are actually offered, SKT denotes them by language. St. Stan’s did the same thing both in their bulletin and the sign board outside (with a third Mass listed as ” Polish”).

    So what is your proposal to make it clearer?

  3. avatar Nerina says:

    I’ll take a stab at it: why not say “9:00AM – Mass in the Ordinary Form in English” and “11:15 – Mass in the Extraordinary Form in Latin” OR “11:15 – The Tridentine Latin Mass”? That should be clear enough, I think.

  4. avatar JLo says:

    I’m with you, Nerina. I think Church leaders should never miss an opportunity to educate; that is, some people have no idea what EF and OF refer to. In your suggested listing is an opportunity to explain it to people who don’t know and, I would hope, ask for clarification! Actually, just reading it the way you’ve put it would give them a clear clue of what it means. So, yes, link the language to the form in this way and truly INFORM! +JMJ

  5. avatar Rich Leonardi says:

    We’ll be in Rochester Dec. 29-31 and around the corner from STA at my mother’s home.

    Do they have weekday masses (in either the EF or OF)?

  6. avatar JLo says:

    Unfortunately, no, Rich. That is my particular prayer intention these days. Hope your visit back “home” is wonderful! +JMJ

  7. avatar christian says:

    As I have stated before, I am so glad that St. Thomas the Apostle Church reopened for Sunday masses. I hope in the future, St. Thomas the Apostle will holy day masses in the evenings.

    So this goes into my (and others’ pet peeve) of churches in the Diocese of Rochester – no evening masses on a holy day of obligation. In my own parish, their was an announcement on the weekend for us all to remember that Monday, December 8th (2014) is a holy day of obligation. I did take a look at the bulletin, but did not check out the details for that feast day as I assumed there was a mass in the evening as per the usual time for a feast day of obligation. At the last minute, I learned there was no evening mass scheduled. I learned that our church parish was no exception as this happened at various parishes around the Diocese of Rochester, where the mass of obligation for the feast day was at 8:00 A.M. or 12 P.M./12:30 P.M., or both times.

    In an era gone by, the noon time masses were conducive for people who could take time from their workday to attend a mass of a holy day of obligation, and employers who would allow their employees to leave and attend a mass on a feast day (although there have always been occupations that have not been conducive to this practice), but those days ae gone. The noon time mass is probably more conducive to people who work an evening shift, those who have other commitments earlier in the morning, and those who are not able to get up in time to make an 8 A.M. mass. I would think the 8 A.M. mass is particularly appealing to those who are retired, who don’t have major health or mobility issues.

    But what has happened to the evening feast day masses for a holy day of obligation? It seems like a lot of priests just want to get their day over with early and do not want to be bothered with an evening mass. At least if the church parish is not offering an evening mass for a holy day of obligation, they should include the names of other churches in the area who are having evening masses and their times. I have gone online and found there are churches who don’t have their current bulletins posted, and I have also found churches which do not have their feast day masses listed on their recording when you call their phone number.

    Telling people that they should remember that a certain day is a holy day of obligation and not providing them with a mass that they can attend, is like a teacher assigning students homework in a textbook, but not providing them with the textbook. It’s also like telling a corpsman on a battlefield that they have to bandage the wounded and tend to the the sick and injured without a Red Cross Field/Medic Bag.

    I have heard comments relaying that the Diocese must not be too concerned about people showing up to a holy day of obligation if they don’t provide accessible masses. I have heard complaints in the past from some parishioners of the Diocese, that even when masses had been scheduled in the evening for a holy day of obligation, they were scheduled too early at 5 P.M.
    More and more, regardless of what scheduled work hours are, people do not leave work at their scheduled time, due to finishing up mandatory work and dealing with frequent emergencies, while shorter staffed; and often in many jobs, not paid for the overtime. People who complained think the evening mass should not be before 6 P.M., and ideally, should be 6:30 P.M. – 7 P.M.

    My options for the time that I was able to attend a holy day mass of obligation for the Feast of the Immaculate Conception were all in foreign languages which I do not speak, read, or write. I was glad for the mass I attended however, and followed along in my missal, speaking the responses in English softly amidst a large number of mass attendees and priest, speaking and reading the foreign language.

    I am fortunate that some churches had decided on their mass schedule for Christmas ahead of time. I have relatives coming into town and they were expecting to go to an earlier mass on Christmas Eve. Transportation arrangements had to be made close to a month in advance for one person in our family. I continued to ask at this person’s parish to what time the early Christmas Eve mass would be. I was told by a staff person that they didn’t even know if they would be having one there, and no schedule had been decided yet. After Thanksgiving, it still wasn’t decided. I never did receive a phone call from that staff person after the schedule was settled. We decided to go with another church.

    A Church Parish NOT deciding on their Christmas Eve and Christmas Day Mass schedule by November, or by the end of November, really shows a lack of organization. There is no concept that people need to plan, and some people who require special transportation need to make arrangements in advance for this busy season and evening.

    I will say this – I am impressed with St. Thomas the Apostle in the fact for the short amount of time that you have been established, you have a Christmas Day Mass Schedule posted. In the future, I hope you have holy days of obligation in the evening – I would be there as well as passing on the information to others.

  8. avatar BigE says:

    @christian
    I saw a bunch of parishes that had evening masses on Monday. Most at 5:30 pm (including the Cathedral). Transfiguration out in Pittsford had a 7pm and if i continued to look I bet could find other 7 pm’s too.

  9. avatar Sid says:

    I sympathize with Christian. Our regular parish has 12:10 Masses on weekdays & Holy Days. That proves tough, so we usually chose a nearby alternate parish that did 7:00 PM. I looked this weekend and found the alternate changed their schedule and now only has a 7:00 AM Holy Day Mass.

    So we quickly found another parish that had a 7:30 pm Mass last night. It was a church I had never attended, one of those “in the round” ones. Past experience with those should have told me they are not aligned with my liturgical expectations and I was correct. There were no pews, only rows of cafeteria chairs. We and only one other family (likely also visitors) were the only ones doing any kneeling. There was lots of chatting both before and afterward AND a “greet your neighbors” at the beginning AND an extended sign of peace that went well into the Agnus Dei. We wouldn’t have stuck out more if we were all wearing Bozo masks.

    The priest in his Homily never discussed the meaning of “Immaculate Conception” meaning Mary was conceived without Original Sin (official doctrine since time of Pius IX and generally accepted before that). Instead he explained that “Immaculate Conception means that Mary trusted God and put her faith in Him”. I looked over at my wife and saw her cringe.

  10. avatar militia says:

    Why wouldn’t the 5:30PM Mass at St. Thomas the Apostle qualify as “evening” i.e. after work. Did anyone go to that Mass who is following along here, and can comment?

  11. avatar Sid says:

    I’ll add in that while travelling I have had good luck scouting out parishes and Mass times via http://www.masstimes.org. Sometimes, though, parishes change their schedules and the information on masstimes.org lag. Thus, I find it works well to find some candidates via masstimes.org and then verify via looking up their bulletin online. If they don’t bother taking the simple effort to make their bulletins easily accessible online, I just cross them off and move to the next candidate.

    Bulletins even in the modern age are invaluable for frequent travellers. You can usually tell the “flavor” of a parish from their bulletin. The “peace and justice” and “liberation theology” parishes can be generally culled without setting foot in the door. It’s important to support (even as visitors) places that take the effort to do things right.

  12. avatar JLo says:

    Militia, My husband and I went to the 5:30 p.m. holy day Mass at St. Thomas. It was well attended, maybe 300, and I consider that good considering the church has just reopened. We went by the church a bit after noon that day and saw that the parking lot was quite full, so I presume the EF Mass at that time was also well attended. Since we did consider 5:30 a doable “evening” Mass, we have no complaints that it wasn’t later. Wonderful Mass of course. +JMJ

  13. avatar christian says:

    militia and JLo – does St. Thomas the Apostle Church have a 5:30 P.M. Mass everyday and on holy days? I wasn’t aware of it, but would be interested if they do.

    Sid – Thanks for posting that website. I know what you mean about parishes changing their schedule or deciding at the last minute, not to have a mass. It’s not always easy to learn of a later evening mass in a different section of the Diocese, although I would be very happy to drive out of my way to attend a mass for a holy day of obligation. I actually did so last night after I gassed up.

    Sid – I notice there tends to be a watering down of theology norms nowadays – basic theological knowledge and terms are replaced with “feel good” type of theological generalities.
    I know what you mean about cafeteria style seating in the round, and very informal liturgical practices. I like a sense of reverence when I worship. I have a good sense of humor and like to laugh like anyone else, but there is a time and place for everything. I have been very disappointed and frustrated when a homily is more of a comedy act, which doesn’t delve into deep spiritual issues. (Mind you, as a child, I liked to watch Bishop Fulton Sheen’s TV show on Sunday). I also do not like occurrences when there are purposeful omissions from the readings of the day and liturgy, to make the mass shorter.

    I was fortunate that even though I did not speak, read, or write the language of the people of the mass that I attended, the priest and parishioners were reverent throughout the mass, and there was beautiful chant and music & songs.

  14. avatar dmf says:

    Mass schedule at STA:

    Sunday, 9 a.m. English, 11:15 a.m. Latin
    Holy Days, vary depending on the day

    There are currently no daily Masses and no Saturday vigil Masses.

  15. avatar Sid says:

    I should have mentioned… Somebody in TLM Community should go to the “St. Thomas the Apostle” link on http://www.masstimes.org and update to the current information. What is there presently reflects the old dormant status (no Masses).

    You just need to enter “Irondequoit, NY” as the search region and scroll down to get to the right entry, click the “update this parish” link, and supply the new information.

    I can see that St. Stanislaus already updated their entry to indicate that the Latin Mass is no longer celebrated there.

  16. avatar dmf says:

    MassTimes.org is now updated. Thanks, Sid.

  17. avatar Carmelite says:

    Does the 11:00 Mass Bishop Matano is celebrating at Monroe Community Hospital satisfy the Christmas Holy Day obligation?


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