Cleansing Fire

Defending Truth and Tradition in the Roman Catholic Church

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More Mimicking the Priest

April 1st, 2011, Promulgated by Dr. K

First, the children of St. Monica were invited to stand around the altar and imitate the gestures of the priest celebrant during the consecration…

Now St. Mary downtown is doing the same…

Thankfully, Fr. Donnelly will retire in June and the circus at St. Mary downtown may soon come to an end. Nobody should be standing at the altar during the consecration except for the priest. Nobody should be imitating gestures at Mass reserved for the priest. Stop sending children to commit your liturgical abuses. If you want to stand around the altar and pretend to elevate the chalice contrary to the liturgical norms of the Church, then do it yourselves.

Also… Wasn’t the reason for offering the Mass versus populum so that the people could see what the priest was doing? How are you supposed to see what’s going on with people standing in front of the altar?

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43 Responses to “More Mimicking the Priest”

  1. avatar Dr. K says:

    Is that unleavened bread?

  2. avatar Anonymous says:

    yes. it is.

  3. avatar Matt says:

    I thought it was corn chex

  4. avatar Bruce says:

    The baby boomer generation cannot end quickly enough. Is there any end to the damage these clowns have caused outside of the Church…saying nothing of what they’ve done TO the Church. Take a close look at the boys in these pictures. Could they be less interested? Could you see them attending Mass in say, five years? Do you think they will ever come back? Children know when something is stupid and terrible, and what these priests have done qualifies not only as stupid and terrible, but also awkward and boring. They’re killing the Church.

  5. avatar Dr. K says:

    The facial expressions say it all.

  6. avatar Choir says:

    Bruce – what you say is SO true, and I”m a baby boomer. Those children, especially the boys, look so disinterested and disconnected. When you look at that picture, the Mass has no mystery; mystery that both boys and girls (and adults too) are looking for. The mystery that is God. While I agree that the Novus Ordo is valid; it still pales in comparison with the Tridentine Rite of Mass. As a baby boomer who never fell for the misinterpretation of Vatican II, I apologizes for all the sanctimonious liberal twits in the Church that have devalued the sacred liturgy, Catholic teachings and devotions, etc. Pray that the scales fall from their collective eyes and they see the truth of what they have done to the Church. Church should be a place of devotion; not commotion.

  7. avatar Louis E. says:

    Wouldn’t St. Mary’s Downtown prefer that the children emulate the modern,with-it female administrator than one of those musty old patriarchal priest-people?

  8. avatar Anonymous says:

    [Comment removed by moderator]

  9. avatar Christopher says:

    Dr k, if someone from St. Mary’s is reading this blog and doesn’t understand why this is inappropriate. Is there a background article or canon law section you can point them to?

    Here is an article about unleavend bread vs. Leavened for anyone interested in that topic:
    http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=2253

  10. avatar Christopher says:

    Anon 11:06. That comment is really unnecessary and doesn’t add anything of value to the discussion. Please show some restraint and respect for those which God has granted authority to. Please take a deep breath and pray for all of us.

  11. avatar Dr. K says:

    Here is the documentation re: standing around the altar, from a dubium to the Congregation for Divine Worship in 1981:

    “Assuredly, the Eucharistic celebration is the act of the entire community, carried out by all the members of the liturgical assembly. Nevertheless, everyone must have and also must observe his or her own place and proper role: “In liturgical celebrations each one, minister or layperson, who has an office to perform, should do all of, but only, those parts which pertain to that office by the nature of the rite and the principles of liturgy.” (SC art. 29). During the liturgy of the eucharist, only the presiding celebrant remains at the altar. The assembly of the faithful take their place in the Church outside the “presbyterium,” which is reserved for the celebrant or concelebrants and altar ministers.” (Notitiae 17 (1981) 61)

    Good articles: here, here and here.

  12. avatar Christopher says:

    Thanks Dr. K, what happened to the Wikipedia. I was looking to copy paste some of the points from those articles so you didn’t have to do it….

  13. avatar Anonymous says:

    The documents that Dr. K provided are excellent! Thank you for your careful study and for informing the faithful; a wonderful role for a layperson.Keep praying for and supporting our priests! A new day is dawning in Rochester.

  14. avatar Dr. K says:

    what happened to the Wikipedia

    It was underutilized over the past year so I decided to do away with it.

    Thanks, anon 9:32 for the kind words.

  15. avatar Ben Anderson says:

    It should also be noted that w/out videos, pictures, and audio recordings the nonsense that was going on at Corpus Christi would’ve continued on longer.

  16. avatar Anonymous says:

    Boring and disinterested? Maybe we should hand the children rosaries to keep them busy… oh wait, that’s what people did before the Novus Ordo…

  17. avatar Anonnymouse says:

    The saddest thing is that in both pictures, that is all the children they have in the congregation. Our with-it, contraceptive culture seems to be depleting the ranks of future “progressive” Catholic communities.

    And with respect to the bread, I spect it contains more than wheat flour and water.

  18. avatar Abaccio says:

    When I hear the bells and see Fr. Bonsignore raise the Eucharist to be adored at the EF Mass at St Stanislaus, it’s all I can do to keep from weeping. Would that Masses everywhere brought about this sense of overwhelming joy to the faithful.

  19. avatar Dr. K says:

    Boring and disinterested? Maybe we should hand the children rosaries to keep them busy… oh wait, that’s what people did before the Novus Ordo…

    Most people at St. Stanislaus pray along with the priest using hand missals.

  20. avatar Anonymous says:

    Matt,
    The “corn chex” you think is so funny is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus. And it IS unleavened bread–flour and water.
    And btw, the children aren’t bored..they are just children.

  21. avatar annonymouse says:

    Dear anonymous 8:25 – there are no other ingredients? Not a drop of honey, for example? May I ask who cleans the crumbs/fragments up off the floor after communion (which are the very Body of Our Lord?

  22. avatar Anonymous says:

    My parents were raised prior to Vatican II and while they certainly say that Mass attendance was higher, they have told me they believe that while people were generally respectful, most were not overly attentive, apart from the consecration. I have lived in a lot of different places and have rarely witnessed some of the more egregious abuses that are often depicted as representative of the problems with the post-Vatican II liturgy. I must admit that as a middle age Catholic, I am not sure that the majority of our young people and youth will find some of the “new or corrected” translation approachable. Certainly education can and should play a part, but I fear that it may push more people out of the church than it draws in. I know there is much talk of a something like a “remnant” of true believers, but that seems to go against much of what I read in the Bible and in the Church’s history. Certainly, first and foremost, the liturgy is praise and worship of God, but it is the “work of the people” and as such people need to feel a connection to it.

  23. avatar Abaccio says:

    Anon the last,

    I humbly suggest you stay tuned for the future posts in my series on the new translation. We’ll start looking at the actual translation itself, and I think you’ll find it astonishingly “approachable.”

  24. avatar Anonymous says:

    There are no crumbs on the floor. The Eucharist received at St. Mary’s is unleavened bread. Are you saying that the white hosts are the ONLY way Jesus can be received in Eucharist? If that is not heresy I don’t know what is. And actually again I will say, because some people cannot accept the facts if it does not fit in with their reality–the Eucharist received at St. Mary’s is honored and respected. It is unleavened whole wheat flour and water–NOT CORN CHEX. I am deeply offended by the flippancy.

  25. avatar Eliza10 says:

    Anonymous, Matt was just being humorous. Humor is a leavening for the heaviness you feel when you see this picture of the children so casually disconnected to the Great Mystery in front of them. You say they are are “just children”, but we who are parents know the preciousness of their innocence and how, when taught about the things of God, their purity allows them to respond to truths with awe and respect. These innocent children are untaught. Such a sad, sad story the picture tells of the DOR not doing its job to teach and to shepherd the innocent children God has entrusted to them. That heavy sadness begs a little levity. Matt’s comment that the odd-looking hosts in the same picture look like Corn Chex gives us a that little bit of relief. Thanks, Matt.

  26. avatar Dr. K says:

    In all seriousness, St. Mary should really choose a better bread for their hosts. Their bread is thick, chewy, leaves a lot of crumbs, and does not taste right.

  27. avatar Anonymous says:

    Humor? making fun of the Body and Blood of Our Lord?? Sorry, I am still deeply offended.
    As far as the children are concerned…what do you expect a camera to capture in that split second?
    “…their purity allows them to respond to truths with awe and respect…” Are you kidding? Even way back in the 50’s when I was but an innocent, and Religion was taught in a much more formal way, we children hardly exhibited the “awe and respect” that you refer to. We were kids..our attention wavered, our legs moved in fidgety rhythm, our faces erupted in spontaneous smiles..And my guess is that the children, whom the Lord so lovingly asked His disciples to clear the way, for were quite the same way.Only the well- meaning disciples, like you, I am sure, saw the children as not having sufficient gravitas for so holy a man as Jesus. I cannot imagine Jesus either demanding that the children remain in their seats when they want to come closer to Him…or requiring them to stand stock still, focus their entire little beings on Him, and respond in a way that would make a monk proud ( even monks can look disinterested at times..and they’ve been trained in meditation). Jesus never invited children, or anyone else for that matter, only on the condition that they meet a certain set of conditions. In fact, His deepest wrath was reserved for the adults who thought the “rules” were more important than the grace.

  28. avatar Anonymous says:

    To Dr. K.: What exactly should Eucharist taste like??

  29. avatar Dr. K says:

    I don’t know… bread?

  30. avatar Anonymous says:

    Dr. K –
    Perhaps you should worship elsewhere if you don’t like the “taste” of the communion bread at St. Mary’s.

  31. avatar Abaccio says:

    Actually, it doesn’t look like corn chex at all, the color is all wrong. Golden Grahams, perhaps…

    All kidding aside, the problem with this sort of bread (and believe you me, I have had homemade unleavened bread on a great number of occasions at various screwball Masses, so I say this not in ignorance…) is linked in with the problems inherent with communion in the hand and the disuse of patens and the use of EMHC’s. I am 100 percent certain that crumbs have been dropped on the floor, swept up, and tossed unceremoniously into the trash. That is unacceptable, and it is most certainly sacrilege. If it was given only by the priest, who then performed the older-style ablutions, to communicants on the tongue, over a paten…well, I’d have much less problem with it. It’d still be stupid, but less chance of sacrilege.

  32. avatar Dr. K says:

    Dr. K –
    Perhaps you should worship elsewhere if you don’t like the “taste” of the communion bread at St. Mary’s.

    The taste is not my chief concern… though strange taste could indicate strange ingredients.

    The crumbs left behind are the big problem. Take a look inside the little bowls used by the EMHC at St. Mary downtown when you go up for Communion. Awful lot of crumbs inside. Now take into account that most people at that parish receive in the hand, and you can see how particles of the Blessed Sacrament are likely ending up all over the floor of that church.

  33. avatar Anonymous says:

    The Eucharistic ministers at St. Mary’s are trained to consume all the remaining “crumbs” and sacred wine. And they do. The hosts are in the tabernacle for reserve.
    And Abaccio, “Golden Grahams”?? Really? If you are so certain about the crumbs on the carpet, then go to St. Mary’s sometime and after Mass get on your hands and knees and survey the situation. I have done it..just out of curiosity–and guess what?? No Crumbs.
    Maybe people are messier at your house when they eat–And yes, Jesus did say “Take and eat”.

  34. avatar Dr. K says:

    I have done it..just out of curiosity–and guess what?? No Crumbs.

    Right.

  35. avatar Anonymous says:

    Actually, yes. I have.

  36. avatar Anonymous says:

    Anon 8:44! I very much doubt that you did that, and I highly doubt that you’re offended by any one’s jokes in this post. It surely doesn’t seem genuine.

  37. avatar Anonymous says:

    I don’t know which Anon you are referring to, but THIS Anon is extremely offended by the flippancy shown towards the Eucharist. You “highly doubt”?? Excuse me, but the Holy Eucharist is the center of my religious life–my children know that I would do anything in my power to protect the Body and Blood of Christ from insult and offense. I have instructed and trained Eucharistic Ministers for years–and maybe you are showing a cynical side of yourself, but believe it or not, I did examine the floor after the Mass was over–just to be sure.
    You, Anon 8:47, do NOT have the market cornered on piety and reverence for the Eucharist. It’s not a good idea to box people into a particular construct of your reality because human beings are way more complex than that. You may find it hard to believe that I ( though my posts have never indicated anything but love of my faith and the Mass)actually find a great deal of solace in prayer and contemplation of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament.
    I am so offended at your high-handed, arrogant remarks and the broad strokes of sarcasm because you seem to think this was all put on.Well, it wasn’t. I struggle like the rest of humankind to reconcile my sinfulness with my desire to please God–but there is something that has never wavered throughout my life and has sustained me through the death of both parents and countless family members and friends–my love of and reliance on the healing Presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament.

  38. avatar Dr. K says:

    but believe it or not, I did examine the floor after the Mass was over–just to be sure.

    Doesn’t the fact that you would need to inspect the floor support the argument that they should use different bread for the consecration? The risk of particles falling to the ground is certainly there, and high.

  39. avatar Anonymous says:

    Anon’s a liberal… He/she says humankind. Quite a long justification for someone who feels they shouldn’t have anything to be ashamed of. So you’re holy. I’m arrogant. What’s your point? I bet this type of liturgical abuse doesn’t happen in TRUE Roman Catholic dioceses in our country. And I’m pretty sure there aren’t many blogs defending the faith in those dioceses as well.

  40. avatar Anonymous says:

    HaHaHa. What a small mind, Anon 3:48. You feel the need to label and create little boxes for people. Holy? Thank you for the compliment. Actually I am a baptized Roman Catholic who happens to find joy in my faith. And as for “humandkind” ? Why is that somehow a strange English language word to use? Aren’t we humans? Aren’t we divided into men and women? Don’t we make that distinction?
    It’s interesting that when people with small minds try to argue a point that they have no expertise in, they resort to labeling and nit-picking. Your surface response says way more about you and your depth of knowledge and understanding than any “label” says about me.

  41. avatar Anonymous says:

    And Dr. K,
    Let’s just say, “ocd”.

  42. avatar annonymouse says:

    Anonymous – there are crumbs of the Sacred Body of Our Lord on the St Mary’s floor. I have nothing against the St. Mary’s communion bread, so long as it’s licit (wheat flour and water only). However, I’m not sure how it’s “heresy” if I were to think otherwise.

    There should be a platen used to catch the crumbs.

  43. avatar Anonymous says:

    Taste and see the goodness of the Lord


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